[Avodah] women lighting candles

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Eli Turkel wrote:
> The gemara says explicitly women are required in
> chanukah candles.

R"n Toby Katz responded:
> We do not pasken from the Gemara. The time-honored
> psak is that women are yotzei with their husband's
> lighting and must light only if alone.

Last week I would have defended RET, by pointing out that it's not just the gemara, but the Shulchan Aruch as well which says this. But a few days ago, I actually looked at that Shulchan Aruch, and I saw an interesting Mishna Brurah on it.

MB 675:9 quotes the Olas Shmuel that "although by us, each one lights by himself, nevertheless a woman does not have to light because they are merely tafel to the men (havayan rak tefeilos la'anashim). If they want to light, they do say the brachos, because it is like other mitzvos aseh shehazman grama that they can say brachos on. When the man is not home, the woman should light, because she *is* obligated, and *with* a bracha -- and not by having a child light."

He does not sound ambivalent to me, but seems to be saying similar to RTK, that women emphatically *do not* light unless they are alone.

I find it particularly noteworthy that he invokes the concept of "mitzvos aseh shehazman grama" and the (Ashkenazi) psak that women *do* say the brachos on such mitzvos. This seems to contradict his own admission that women *are* obligated on their own. I have to wonder why he phrased it this way, rather than simply saying that "If they want to light, they do say the brachos, because they *are* obligated."

Furthermore, I wonder what he would say to a Sefardi woman, who wants to light her own menora beside her husband's, and normally does *not* say a bracha on a Mitzvat Aseh Shehazman Grama. Would he say that invoking MASG was a mere figure of speech, and she *can* say the bracha here? Or would he say that even though she does have a technical obligation to light, she lacks a *practical* obligation (because she so easily choose to be yotzay with her husband) and should therefore skip the bracha. I suppose it would depend on the precise reasoning behind skipping those brachos in general.

By the way, I was vary surprised to find the word "tafel" used, as opposed to the "ishto k'gufo" which has appeared in so many recent posts. Can anyone offer a citation for where "ishto k'gufo" appears in the context of Ner Chanuka? Or is just another "phantom maamar chazal"?

Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw22U6Kgru2K1Y5e5JxdKmLESSyZIq5deDh7mtOektiR1uZzM/