[Avodah] R' Aviner on gadol hador status

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 12:38:50AM -0500, T613K at aol.com wrote:
:                                     The Ba'al Shem Tov died in 1760,  the 
: Vilna Gaon in 1797. A person doesn't become a godol hador until he
: is at least in his fifties and more often not until he's 70, so the
: Vilna Gaon (who was 40 when the Baal Shem Tov died) would not yet have been
: the godol hador when the Besht was still alive...

The Besht was known as a Baal Shem. The Gra, for his learning in
halakhah. Apples and oranges.

If "Gadol haDor" relates to halachic leadership, the Besht wouldn't
have been considered in the running even by Chassidim. His leadership
centered an aggadita, kindling hislahavus. There is no Pisqei haBesht,
the Besht's notes on SA, Shu"t, etc...

But I don't think we're going to find a source for the reality of the
concept. Gedulah is inherently a relative term. You can't simply line up
people and rank them. (Which is why IQ scores have very limited meaning.
Different people can be bright in different areas, in different ways.)

However, RnTK's point here is inaccurate.

First, the Ramchal died 14 years before the Besh"t. He was recognized,
despite dying at 39. He, like the Besh"t, didn't become famous on the
weight of his pesaqim. But you can't conclude anything from the fact
that today we don't turn to people for leadership, to even look to see
who is great, until they reach their 50s.

BTW, is fame, in the form of being known and actually providing
leadership, part of your definitiohn of a gadol? What if the greatest
mind of the generation is sitting in the back of a tiny beis medrash
somewhere going totally unnoticed?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Rescue me from the desire to win every
micha at aishdas.org        argument and to always be right.
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