[Avodah] FW: Worth thinking about

[Ira Tick]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Yitzhak Grossman <celejar at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> There are, of course, other interpretations of why the Hachamim didn't
> follow the Bas Kol in the case of Tanur Shel Achnai.  Tosfos (Yevamos
> 14a s.v. Rabbi Yehoshua), for example, suggest (in their first
> approach) that the veracity of that Bas Kol was dubious, since it only
> occurred in defense of the honor of Rabbi Eliezer.


I like this approach.  Zev Sero mentioned that the bas kol only speaks on
behalf of the greatest scholar, as if the bas kol only "knows" that much and
has only that fact to submit to the court.  This is problematic, because who
says a bas kol is to be thought of as an entity or as a realm of knowledge
or autonomous providence.  I think that its a mistake to truly believe that
angels or heavenly visions or anything else are autonomous (even if the
gemara describes angels as being punished, i think this is easily understood
as a metaphor that people as agents of causation can relate to).  In my
opinion, it makes sense to view the bas kol as a "defense of the honor" of
R. Eliezer and primarily as a test to the rest of the court, if they will
uphold the norm of 'lo bashamayim hi' and defend the halachic process in
spite of the honor of any one of their members.  If the chachamim saw this
as a test, then there is no need to resolve the philosophical problem of
whether or not the bas kol was accurate and therefore provided a dilemma.
If the bas kol was merely a test, then there is no way to know whether or
not the halacha in shamayim really is like R. Eliezer, but that doesn't
matter, the evidence is not admissible in court.  Do chachamim worry about
whether one pair of witnesses is correct in a case of 'trei u'trei'?  No, of
course not.  They surely wish they could resolve the case, but since they
cannot under the rules of court procedure, which are established wisely for
the sake of the halachic (or in this case judicial) process, and must be
upheld.


-- 
Ira Tick
6519 N Whipple
Chicago, IL 60645
(414) 699-8285

itick1986 at gmail.com
itick at iit.edu
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20081212/67377887/attachment-0001.htm>