[Avodah] Is the term "He died before his time" correct?

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 03:34:58PM +0200, Saul Mashbaum wrote:
: See RSRH's commentary on Bereshit 18;10;
: "There are two words for time, zman and eit. Zman is probably time in
: general in its duration and effect; eit designates a point in time, a
: moment either as befitting for some purpose or altogether as a fraction
: of time"

: RSRH then cites Kohelet 2:1 (davar b'ito ma tov, SM): Lakol zman, v'eit
: l'kol chefetz. "Everything requres its time, and there is a fixed,
: proper moment for every effort".

Rashi on Qoheles 3:1 "... ki lekhol davar yeish zeman kavua' matai
yihyeh". RSRH disagrees with Rashi.

RSRH is also coming from a very different place than my assumption;
which admittedly says more about my assumption than RSRH, although what
I'm saying works lefi Rashi.

I was starting with Chazal's treatment of Bereishis 47:8,28 that Yaakov
speaks of his yamim to mean his productive days, and shanim as the time
he simply marked. Then, given the philosophical distinction between
cyclic time and linear time, it seems natural to associate yamim,
denoting productive time, to be linear, and shanah, which means a
repetition, with cyclical time.

The roots of the cyclic view of time is typified by Plato, who noted
that time is measured by rhythmic repeating processes. Thus, the
linear vs cyclic distinction appears akin to time as a dimension vs
viewing time as a feature of processes.

Which then led to eis vs zeman. I could have misremembered which is
which, this far into the discussion, my confidence that I got RAKotler
correct has been shaken.

See <http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2004/11/miqeitz-time-and-process.shtml>
for a fuller discussion.

The gemara (Eiruvin 54a-b) explains how the Torah is compared to a fig
tree (and then again to nursing). A fig tree has figs at all eis (they
ripen throughout the year), at any zeman at which the person picks one,
he'll find food. This seems to say that zeman is not a point on a timeline
as much as getting there when you get there. And is in any case not
using the terms as RSRH explains their usage in lashon Tanakh (Chumash?).

Getting back to the original point, I think it's still possible to talk
about someone dying before their time as long as we have two definitions
of "their time". The details as to which word means which is tangential.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For a mitzvah is a lamp,
micha at aishdas.org        And the Torah, its light.
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