[Avodah] Praying to angels

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:43:59 -0400
Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 04:32:13PM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> : Actaulyl we debated this. There are those who say taht mal'achim do NOT lakc
> : behira but lack a yetzer horo
> 
> I phrased it as a machloqes between the Rambam and the OS on the Rambam,
> in his essay "Hakol Tzadfui" on Hil' Teshuvah.

The position you attribute to Rav Meir Simha is that of Ralbag
(Commentary to the Torah, Bereishis 3:24):

"But the upper intellects ("ba'alei sechel ha'elyonim") act
consistently, even though they have free will, since they always choose
good, ... but the person, since he is a combination of matter and form,
ineluctably has opposite choices ..."

You have stated here and previously that Rambam disagrees; I don't know
your source for this.  I don't see Rav Meir Simha claiming or
acknowledging this, and a cursory reading of the Moreh (2:7) seems to
indicate that his opinion is more or less that of Ralbag

...

> In the first iteration of the discussion, RYGB suggested that perhaps
> the Or Samei'ach would say that a mal'akh sent on a mission down here,
> such that he as existence in both realms, could have bechirah. Such a
> mal'ach could be fooled by the nature of this world, just like a person
> could.

Ralbag, like Rambam, of course does not believe that Malachim are ever
"sent on a mission down here", so for him the question is moot.

...

> And I also personally would side with those who understand "benei
> elohim" otherwise; such as RSRH's take that they were the rich sons of
> the powerful. But RYGB used this case an example to prove his point
> (above).

RSRH?  It's a Medrash Rabbah, cited by Rashi: "be'nei ha'sarim
ve'hashoftim".  This is also the interpretation of Ramban and Ibn Ezra.

> Micha Berger             Man can aspire to spiritual-moral greatness

Yitzhak
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