[Avodah] What would a Torah government look like

[Shmuel Weidberg]

On Jan 24, 2008 12:28 PM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
> The Torah describes a system of checks and balances between three
> branches of gov't.
>
> The judicial branch, comprised of Beis Din haGadol and the rabbinate.
> The kehunah, providing moral, educational and spiritual leadership.
> The executive branch which had its own internal checks and balances
> between the melekh and his court navi.

I don't think there ever was a court Navi. For one thing, Shmuel who
would presumably have been Shaul's court Navi does not seem to have
stayed with the court. And it's not clear that Nosson stayed in
David's court. And we find no such concept by any of the other kings.
In any case, the Navi was independent of the King completely.

>
> The melukhah, nevu'ah and kehunah each had to be distinct people.
> Either could (and often did) serve on beis din. And so, we speak of
> Shlomo ubeis dino. And yet, David listened to Nasan, even though it's
> hard to believe that meant Nasan was the greater navi.

I assume you're comparing the greatness of David and Nosson in the
category of nevuah. I think it is totally irrelevant who is greater.
Hashem chooses who will be his messenger, but regardless of the
greatness of the messenger, the words are those of Hashem.

>
> The US constitution is a collection of laws about how to make laws. An
> almost empty framework. Halakhah gives a lot more guidance. But to
> actually run a society, one would still need to fill in such holes in
> cases that aren't assur, but posing a hazard.  The core law is
> halakhah, but beis din created further takanos for organizing society,
> and the melekh made decrees to address its needs.

The Mishna does mention gozrei gezeiros in the time of the Bayis
Sheni. It sounds like they were independent of the Sanhedrin, although
possibly a subcommittee.

> For example, even during bayis sheini, I picture that most crimes were
> handled in ways other than those spelled out in seider neziqim. Chiyuv
> misah is very hard to qaulify for. Death by dry barley also requires a
> certain level of certainty -- just a lack of 2 eidim. But there had to
> be a place to put someone who is a danger to society.

I would presume so. I wonder if there is any direct mention of long
term jails under the auspices of a halachic government.

Regards,
Shmuel