[Avodah] charging ribis to a Jew / non-Jew

[Michael Kopinsky]

On Jan 1, 2008 8:38 AM, Michael Makovi <mikewinddale at gmail.com> wrote:

> However, see what I posted in the lashon hara thread, with the quote
> from Rav Epstein's book, that Chazal looked down on charging interest
> to a gentile, and in fact Rabbinically prohibited it, and Tosafot's
> justification for why we no longer follow that prohibition (viz. high
> taxes paid to gentile authorities precluded not charging interest).
>

Look at the Gemara (BM 70a-b) and Tosafos (70a d"h Tashich).  It is clear
that the issur d'rabbanan is not because Chazal looked down upon charging
interest, but because they discouraged any business interaction with
non-Jews, because of shema yilmod mimaasav.  For this reason, the Gemara
says that a talmid chacham may lend to a non-Jew with interest.  The other
hetter given by the gemara is k'dei chayav.  I submit (based loosely on
Rashi) that the reason for this hetter is that a limitation of k'dei chayav
will prevent the excessive contact with its destructive opportunities.
Tosafos says that since the tax burden in their time was so heavy, all
business was k'dei chayav.


> It would be interesting then, to do a heter iska with a gentile. The
> Gemara offers that it is permissible to pay interest to a gentile,
> just not charge, so perhaps no heter iska would be needed if he wanted
> to charge you interest. That's fortunate, because it would certainly
> be an interesting thing: go to a bank to take out a loan, and ask the
> bank employee to sign an Aramaic document permitting you to pay him
> interest.
>


Hetter iska has never been used with non-Jews, and in fact makes no sense to
use.  It is a loophole to avoid technical ribbis, and for the
investor/lender to still earn money.  With non-Jews the issue is not
technical ribbis, it's the social interaction involved.  A technical
loophole accomplishes nothing. And the fact that we are noheg to do business
with non-Jews is a clear proof that the hetter of Tosafos (et al) has been
accepted.

KT,
Michael
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