[Avodah] [Areivim] "Blei Gissen" should we believe in this?

[Micha Berger]

Another crossover from the original Areivim discussion of this topic.
I wrote about my problems believing in such things because of a strict
rationalist bent, but problems simply dismissing them because of
personal experience.

Either way, I believe intentionally seeking advice through
metaphysical channels would be considered against halakhah according
to Litvisher understandings of "tamim tihyeh". But a discussion of the
machloqes about permissability is distinct from one about
effectiveness.

Anyway, to my claim about having a "strict rationalist bent", RDWells
wrote on Areivim:
: But is Torah itself in all its many facets completely rational?
: If it was, then homo sapiens would have managed quite well without it!

Many things are rational in the sense of 20/20 hindsight that we never
could have figured out on our own. And then there are things that are
transrational -- eg chuqim.

However, my problem with metaphysical causality is that I see no
reason for yet another thing that gets in the way of the balance of
din vechessed. HQBH gives you what you need. Gam zu letovah. Nu, you
need the ability to predict consequences of your actions. You need
some uncertainty about Him. So, there's teva.

Why do I need "metaphysical mechanics"?

I continued in my Areivim post repeating something the chevrah here
failed to convince me out of in the past:
:> Remember, I'm the same person who argued that a mezuzah doesn't
:> protect, mitzvas mezuzah does;

To which he replied:
: mitzvas mezuzah is not billed AFAIK as a panacea for protection
: otherwise all the goyim would also follow suit.

And yet Rav gave one as a gift to a Roman prince and told him it would
guard his home. Eino metzuvah ve'oseh seems to also work.

Calling is a "panacea" rolls in other issues, like the reliability of
the protection.

Me, Areivim:
:> and therefore I saw no reason why a mezuzah that was checked as
:> required by din but it so happens kelapei
:> Shemaya galya that it's pasul would provide any less shemirah.

RDW, Areivim, reply:
: You are mixing two concepts. A person who hired a reliable sofer and
: had the mezuza checked by a qualified expert is not liable klapei
: shamayim for an undiscovered error.

: But the fact that it is posul is a pegiah beshamayim which can effect
: the security of the place to which it is attached.

I am not confusing the two. I am questioning the whole "pegi'ah
bashamayim" concept. NhC is quite clear that the only thing that ties
together the forces of this world and those of higher ones is the
human soul.

It lead me to the conclusion that all these seeming metaphysical
mechanical statements are in fact psychospiritual onces. And thus,
every such statement does tie back to the changes made on the gavra by
the pe'ulah in olam ha'asiyah, which then, though the unified soul,
can pull in kochos in higher olamos. All of which we usually call
"sechar va'onesh".

This allows me to justify my bias against other things that get in the
way of sechar va'onesh by simply pretending they don't exist.

As RZS already noted, though, it is hard then to make heads or tails
of pereq Bameh Ishah. The discussion on Shabbos 61 is about medical
kemei'os. This gets into the whole question of what is wrong with
"whispering". As well as the question recently asked on another thread
about placebo effect.

SheTir'u baTov!
-micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
micha at aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv