[Avodah] 15 different fruits on Tu B'shvat

[Michael Makovi]

> >  It reminds me of Rav Hirsch's visiting the Alps so
> > that he'd be able to answer Hashem in the affirmative when asked about
> > seeing His wonders.
> > Mikha'el Makovi

> This touches on an idea I've been having some trouble with.
> Mesillat Yesharim, Chapter on Perishut
> Even though it says
> ' (Yerushalmi Kiddushin 4:12) a man will have to give an accounting to the
> Presence for everything that his eyes beheld and he did not wish to eat,
> though permitted and able to do so. They adduced Scripture in their support
> (Ecclesiastes 2:10), `Anything my eyes asked, I did not keep from them.' " '
>
> the Ramchal still says that it is proper to abstain as much as possible from
> all worldly pleasures:
> ' The undesirable type of separation is that of the foolish gentiles who
> abstain not only from that which is not essential to them, but also from
> that which is, punishing their bodies with strange forms of affliction that
> God has no desire for. What is more, our Sages have said (Ta'anith 226), "A
> person is forbidden to torture himself." '
>
>
> This seems to suggest that the level of Perushut we should be striving for
> is basically abstain from anything not absolutely necessary.
>
> Does someone have a good explanation for how we understand this to fit in
> with the quote above?

I'd view it as a machloket. For example, Rabbi when he died said,
"Hashem, it is known before you that I didn't derive a little-finger's
worth of pleasure from the world", or something like that.

There seems to be a machloket between:
(1) Only derive pleasure from what is absolutely necessary. But to
abstain more than this, such as with self-mortification, is a sin. But
also to indulge more than this, is a sin too.
(2) Use the entire world with all its pleasures, but use them in the
proper way. Eat anything, etc., but do so in a proper controlled way,
make a bracha first, etc. Everything in the world, Hashem gave to be
used by us, albeit in a certain way.

Ramchal clearly follows the former. I believe Hovot haLevavot does too.

Whereas I haven't found a modern-type Orthodox rabbi who doesn't
follow the second one.

It is interesting that in Encyclopedia Judaica, under fasting I think,
Ramchal is given as a paradigm for the Jewish view on fasting. But in
the article on Judaism b'klal I think, the author says it is
questionable whether there is a normative Judaism as many have wanted
to write out those whom they see as disagreeing; the author's case in
point is that many want to write out Ramchal from normative Judaism
because of his views on abstention. Obviously, at least the second
isn't an Orthodox author. But it's interesting nonetheless.

In other words, that there is a machloket is unavoidable I think.

> On a separate note, the quote about being asked about "everything that his
> eyes beheld and he did not wish to eat" still doesn't seem to require
> someone to go to the Alps. Since the Alps are not in front of me now and I
> can't see them, I should not be required to use them. However, if someone
> were to place a juicy steak in front of me, even if my general practice
> might be to abstain from meat during the week, it would seem that I should
> eat the steak as it is something I am currently beholding and would
> otherwise be refusing to partake in Hashem's good.

True. But we must put this in terms of Rav Hirsch himself: Rav Hirsch,
throughout his writings, is absolutely enthralled with the ideas of
learning Hashem from nature, and learning about our duties from the
same. In Artscroll's biography of him, it says that when he was about
20, he had a dream where he saw all of nature obeying His laws, and
Rav Hirsch asked, why isn't mankind obeying His laws as dutifully as
the flowers and trees and grass? On Mishlei perek 3 and 8 (From the
Wisdom of Mishlei, perush by Rav Hirsch, page 44), the one used by
Chazal to say that the Torah is the blueprint of the world, Rav Hirsch
waxes about how Hashem created laws for nature and man alike, the only
difference being that the former is obeyed unwittingly and the latter
via free will.

So for Rav Hirsch to seek out nature is peshita.

Also, I would say that even if the pleasure is not in front of you,
maybe you have to indulge in it. I cannot think of a Talmudic maxim,
but I am reminded of my mother, who has said that every exotic weird
fruit she tries, she's glad she'll be able to tell Hashem she did in
fact try it, even if she didn't like it.

Mikha'el Makovi