[Avodah] Skipping Korbanos

[Ken Bloom]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 21:18 +0000, Dov Kay wrote:
> RSBA wrote:  <<Which reminds me something I once heard about a bit of
> a tummel which took place in a BHMD in BP, when the "chassidish" BT
> skipped Tachanun.
> 
> A "yeshivish" mispallel got quite upset, but the BT replied 'and what
> about you "Litvaks"'? 'How come your regularly skip saying
> "korbonos"'?
> 
> Is this correct? And if so, what indeed, is the reason for this?>>
>  
> Much of "korbanos" in modern siddurim was a later additions my
> mekubbalim, eg pitum haketores.  Straight minhag Ashkenaz just says
> parashas haTamid, eizeihu mekoman and R. Yishmael (the minimal mikra,
> mishna and talmud following immediately after birchos haTorah, which
> are recited after birchos hashachar).  So a Litvak or Yekke who
> restricts himself to these sections is not skipping korbanos.
> However, I have been in Hungarian shuls where the shatz is expected to
> say everything printed in the siddur, including the akedah.  I believe
> Sephardim to do the same.

Sepharadim are supposed to do the same, but various different synagogues
start at various different places publically, and expect you to the rest
at home, and announce different starting times based on that.
Additionally, people come late at various places in the tefillah.

For example, at the minhag Yerushalaim synagogue here in Chicago, we
announce 6:30 a.m. weekday davening, but the shaliach tzibbur starts at
6:45 with "Ribi Yishmael", wiht most people aiming to have their
tefillin on and be ready to go for 6:45.
At the Turkish synagogue, they announce 7:00 a.m., and start at 7:00
a.m. with "Kadesh Li", then they jump over akediah, korbanot, etc...
directly to Hodu. (During Elul, I've noticed that they don't leave time
after Selichot to say Korbanot.)
When I visited Los Angeles not too long ago, I found that the Persian
synagogues there started Yom Tov and Shabbat davening with "Hashem
Melech" at the announced time, then went straight to "Baruch
She'amar" (skipping over all of the tehillim added for Shabbat.)

> That being said, RSBA will be aware that the Lakewood Kollel in
> Melbourne officially skips all of the korbanos and goes to straight to
> R. Yishmael after b'rochos.  One of the avreichim there once told me
> that he had looked far and wide for a source for this, but couldn't.
> I can only guess that they reckoned that the avreichim don't need
> their mikra, misha, talmud dosage then, because they will be learning
> all day in any event (cf Lakewood not saying chazaras hashatz for
> mincha).  However, given that it goes against the words of the
> Shulchan Aruch, this is quite surprising.  

I'm actually really curious what an Ashkenazi shaliach tzibbur is saying
before pseukei d'zimrah that he's saying too quietly for me to hear. He
says morning berachot, then I hear him say "hagomel chasadim tovim l'amo
yisrael", "l'olam yehei adam", shema, then "ham'kadesh sh'mo b'rabim",
then shortly after that it's kaddish. Everything else is said too
quietly for me to know what he's saying. I've found that I hear pretty
much the same thing at lots of Ashkenazi shuls, so there must be some
kind of standard.

In the mean time, I'm not paying full attention, as I'm doing all of
korbanot according to the Sepharadim, then trying to get a slight jump
on Hodu, so I'm not paying attention to him to know what else he's
saying, but I'm curious to know what they're actually saying. Could
someone please enlighten me?

--Ken

-- 
Ken (Chanoch) Bloom. PhD candidate. Linguistic Cognition Laboratory.
Department of Computer Science. Illinois Institute of Technology.
http://www.iit.edu/~kbloom1/

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