[Avodah] . Re: R' Angel & Geirus Redux (Michael Makovi)

[Michael Makovi]

>  > I would add that there is a tshuva by rav shlomo goren zt"l, who asks
>  > about a ger who fully accepts ol malchut shamayim and the mitzvot, but
>  > does not accept the national identity - and says that such a ger is
>  > not valid gerut.
>  > R' Meir Shinnar

>  Sorry, I'm not familiar with this t'shuva, but what exactly is "national
>  identity"?  I mean, how is he rigorously defining this in an halachic
>  context.
> R' Daniel Israel

I'm not sure, but I suspect he would define it as solidarity with the
Jewish people, sharing in their victories and losses, being a
patriotic Jew who sees being Jewish the same as a red-blooded American
sees being American, etc.

In other words, NOT seeing it as a religion alone the way Christians
view religion - France and Britain can go to war, and their both being
Christian is irrelevant.

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The idea of Jews fighting each other for Germany and England (or for
the Union and Confederacy in the American Civil War) is absolutely
contrary to Judaism. B'vadai (IMHO), if I personally feel the German
or the British cause is true and moral and the other side is in the
wrong and immoral, then I can fight for it, and the fact that there
are Jews on the opposing side is irrelevant - IMHO - I am not fighting
for Germany or Britain per se, but rather for whatever moral cause
Britain or Germany represents, and any Jews I am fighting are ones
that are opposing what is moral.

But if I simply support Britain or Germany because it's my country and
I am patriotic for it, then how can I fight for them if there are Jews
on the other side - by supporting my German/British nationality, stam,
I am placing it above Jewish nationality because I am fighting Jews!

Obviously, if the country's cause is immoral, then it is irrelevant
whether I will fighting Jews - if it is wrong, then fighting for it is
to fight Judaism itself regardless of whether I am fighting against
any actual Jews on the opposing side. Therefore, I am assuming a war
with no moral claim for or against - you are fighting for a morally
ambiguous cause, solely because your country is, and you are fighting
against Jews on the other side - this a Jew cannot do.

If the war is moral, then you are fighting for a moral cause and any
opposing Jews are irrelevant, and if the war is immoral, then you are
fighting Judaism itself, and any opposing Jews are irrelevant.

Now, if the war is morally ambiguous, then perhaps I cannot fight in
it, because I will be killing others (Jewish or gentile) without
proper reason, which is murder. Even if it is not murder, however, the
fact that I am fighting against other Jews means I am placing
German/Britain/American, etc. nationalism and patriotism above Jewish
nationalism and peoplehood.

Mikha'el Makovi