[Avodah] time of Purim Seudah

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Eli Turkel quoted the halachah yomit:

> Bi'dieved one may begin the Seudah anytime before the
> 10th hour of the day. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Brurah
> 695:2, Yad Efraim citing the Maharil, Piskei Tshuvos 695:6

The way this is phrased, it sounds like if one has not started by the 10th hour, he may not begin at all. That's not what I see in the MB nor in the Yad Efraim. Can anyone check what the Maharil and Piskei Teshuvos actually say?

Regarding a Seudas Mitzva on Erev Shabbos, the Shmiras Shabbas K'hilchasa 42:27 says that if the 10th hour has started, then one should only eat "m'at lechem" - a little bread. He gets this from MB 529:8. (See Shaar Hatziun 529:10 regarding how much the "m'at" is.)

Siman 529 is actually about eating Shalosh Seudos when Shabbos is Erev Yom Tov. The SSK 42:(108) says that these halachos also apply to when Purim is Erev Shabbos, and his sources are almost identical to those of the Halacha Yomit.

But (WADR to the many acharonim cited) I wonder about that comparison. I believe it is generally accepted that one can be yotzay Sholosh Seudos with a single kezayis of bread, at least b'dieved. But I also believe it is generally accepted that one CANNOT be yotzay a Seudas Purim with unaccompanied bread, even b'dieved. I cannot cite sources who say that so blatantly, but there are sources who give the shiur of Matanos L'Evyonim in terms of a barely minimal Seudas Purim, and the dollar value there is always closer to the price of a sandwich, not the price of a slice of bread. Thus, it seems to me that there ought to be more leniency for a late Purim Seudah than for a late Shalosh Seudos. But I have not seen such a view inside.

Anyway, a few days ago, my son asked me about the halachos of timing the Seudah this year, so that he could schedule it with his wife and guests. I told him what I remembered, but I confess that I had forgotten that if it gets that late, the MB says for it to be as small as a tiny Shalosh Seudos. Knowing that he is interested in this topic, I sent him a copy of R' Eli Turkel's and Rav Elazar Teitz's posts.

Here is what my son, Elly Miller, wrote back:

> We are planning on starting our seudah at 4:00pm. At 5:50pm
> (a few minutes before plag) we will stop eating, bentsch,
> and still have the option of drinking. The wives will go
> home, light candles, do whatever shabbos preparations still
> need to be done and come back to our place. The men will go
> to shul, daven minchah and maariv. Come back to my home
> where we will continue/have another seudah.
>
> I mentioned to my guests that they may be more comfortable
> eating some bread before chtzos, but that they should have
> in mind that they will be eating the seudah later.
>
> Abba, please post this in my name and let me know what
> people say

He also said that if anyone wants to write to him directly, his email address is ellym at mpkitchens.com

The way my Elly wrote "continue/have another seudah" makes it sound like he is still undecided on whether to bench before shul and have a separate meal after, or to have one long meal with shul in the middle. Or maybe he'll let each guest decide on their own. Or maybe he plans to serve the appetizer and soup as the Purim meal, and then have a separate Shabbos meal of the main course and dessert.

Those varied possibilities caused me to wonder about some very very basic concepts regarding this whole topic.

For example: Why is it important to have an appetite for the Shabbos meal? Why isn't it sufficient that he has eaten it and enjoyed it to some extent? Now that may sound like a silly question. After all, the goal is Oneg Shabbos, and Chazal want us to use food as a means of acheiving that Oneg, and that can't happen without an appetite.

But if so, why does everyone accept, unquestioningly, that the Pores Mappah procedure is acceptable? From the perspective of Oneg Shabbos, why do we care about benching in the middle?

Let me back up and explain myself. For the sake of simplicity, let's take a person who has no minyan in town, so leaving the seudah to go to shul doesn't complicate things. He has two procedures that he is considering: His first idea is to daven mincha, have a Purim Seudah late Erev Shabbos afternoon, say Birkas Hamazon, say Kabbalas Shabbos, have Kiddush, Hamotzi, Seudas Shabbos, bench, and daven Maariv. The second idea is to daven mincha, begin a meal late Erev Shabbos afternoon, pause dirung hte meal to say Kabbalas Shabbos, make Kiddush, (I forgot how Lechem Mishneh is handled,] and then continue his meal, bench, and daven Maariv.

I think most people will agree that the first idea is very b'dieved, while the second one (despite the practical problems such as were mentioned in Rav Teitz's post) is fully sanctioned, at least for Sefaradim.

Why such a disparity? Does Oneg Shabbos really suffer more in the first than in the second?

Many thanks to those who took the time to read such a long post!

Akiva Miller
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