[Avodah] R' Angel & Geirus Redux

[Daniel Eidensohn]

R' Michael Makovi wrote:
>
>>  To turn the question around - do _*you*_ know of any **recognized**
>>  Orthodox authority who characterized them as R' Berkovitz did?
>>     
>
> Not so explicitly, no, but I've always seen R and C characterized as
> tinokim she'nishbu, and never did I see the rabbis distinguished from
> the lay. Now, b'vadai, sometimes you have to take practical measures
> against the rabbis themselves because of the harm they'll do. But it's
> never against them for their own sake - if an R/C rabbi sat and did
> nothing, we'd do nothing to him, and if he does "kiruv", we'll stop
> his efforts but only because of the efforts, not because of him
> himself. This is all AFAIK.
>
>   
We obviously travel in different circles.

Regarding the issue of tinok shenishba - there is much material 
available in the archives I wrote the following

The above concern seems reflected in the Igros Moshe. O.H V 28.22  page 103
Concerning making an eruv with the intent of saving the irreligious from sin
since they were tinok shenisba He says "...and also today the majority of
those who profane Shabbos are kofrin in the entire Torah so that perhaps
everybody would agree that there is no obligation and even no mitzva to strive
to create an eruv for them. But perhaps for the sake of those that don't know
anything -  for those whose sinfulness and even their kefira comes from their
being raised by sinners and therefore there would be a benefit or even mitzva
to save them from sin by making the eruv since they are shogeg? They are,
however, not really shogeg. Even though they were educated by their parents to
sin and be heretics - NEVERTHELESS THEY SEE AND KNOW SHOMREI TORAH AND MITZVOS
and they know that there are gedolim and more intelligent and rational people
than their parents - THEREFORE IT IS MORE CORRECT TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO
OBLIGATION TO SAVE THEM FROM SIN...

Daniel Eidensohn