[Avodah] [Areivim] "Blei Gissen" should we believe in this?

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, January 13, 2008 9:20 am, R Richard Wolpoe wrote:
: What is unclear is how wer they effective? if they had a certain :
Tefillah or affirmation [e.g. this amulet wil bring a refuah shleima :
to its wearer ...] then it might not have worked by means of "magic" :
but rather by means of "positive thinking" similar to a pacebo...

It might even working by creating hirhurei tefillah, and thus
generating zechuyos in the sechar/va'onesh plane. (As I suggested
earlier on this thread.)

...
: I don't know if the above is fact.  It is simply my understanding that
: a lot of spiritual practices work on the conscious and subconscious
: mind of the individual = maybe on the neshama level if you will
...

I feel like I should invite people to follow me down the rabbit hole
before subjecting them to the following. (An "Alice in Wonderland"
reference.)

According to REED (extrapolated from the Maharal), the difference
between 5bn years, 6 days, and the 6 millenia subsequent to those very
6 days is a matter of perception. The difference between blood and
water during maqas dam has to do with the plane the person's
perceptions are on. Very little of what we call reality is contributed
by what's objectively "out there". It's primarily what being a human
being with human perceptions imposes on how we read what's "out
there".

REED might even agree with the Tanya that "ein od milvado" is an
ontological statement; that nothing else exists but Him. Tzimtzum is
an illusion by which people think that other things exist -- including
ourselves. However, it's possible REED believes in an actual,
non-illusory beri'ah, but one that is so unlike what we think is out
there that something could be both wine and water, depending upon who
is imposing their structure on it.

In fact, the difference between the different olamos is entirely one
of where the person is holding, and how that influences their
perception of what's around them. (See MmE vol. I pp 304-312, vol IV p
113, or at least <http://tinyurl.com/2rw5ya> from Aspaqlaria blog.)


A blog I enjoy greatly <plug, plug>, "Believing is Knowing"
<http://yediah.blogspot.com> by RDGuttmann, recently had a series on
what he believes is a fundamental chiluq between the Rambam's and
Ramban's notions of spirituality. I invite you to read his position
there, particularly <http://tinyurl.com/29z4ms>.

However, I do not believe that he, nor R' Asher Buchman (one of his
primary sources <http://hakirah.org/Vol%202%20Buchman.pdf>) are
consistent with Yesodei haTorah 2:5. The describes an ontology in
which there is a chain of mal'achim, each one less contingent than the
ones below it, running from HQBH (who is the ultimate Mamtzi, and
Whose Existence isn't contingent on anything) to the physical world
(1:1-4).

This chain of causality is already associated with the galgalos in 1:5.

Although I must apologize to RZL (did I say it here, or in person?)
for the wild goose chase. This is identical in content to what a
mequbal (eg the Tanya) would say about Or Ein Sof and olamos, but the
Rambam doesn't use the word "olamos" for it. He speaks of them having
different "things" (mal'achim) in higher levels, but not of the levels
themselves. (His only use of olamos is for olam hazeh and olam haba,
Hil Teshuvah 9:6, which explicitly speaks of "shenei ha'olamos",
implying only 2. (What to do with the gemara promising 310 per tzadiq?
I presume the Rambam would say: Allegory!)

But the subtle points of layers of existence vs layers of planes of
existence aside, even the Rambam signs onto the notion of non-material
existences above ours.

However, according to the Rambam, mal'akhim are tzurah beli chomer
(2:3) and sichliim nivdalim (MN I:37, II:6,10). Thus, what exists on
higher planes are intellectual. (And, it would seem, that ideas are
forms.)


A third piece to the puzzle. RCVilozhiner, in Nefesh haChaim I
expounds at length about how man alone is a combination of all the
forces drawing from all the worlds. How only man, through mitzvos (or
their opposite, ch"v), can cause metaphysical changes.


Altogether, I think we can construct an argument that there is no
difference between asking if qabbalistic entities are symbolic or
"actual forces". The higher levels are themselves thought (Rambam).
They are products of our perception -- but then, everything is (REED).
And the changes in our perception and our state are the only lever for
changing the olamos (RCV).

SheTir'u baTov!
-micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
micha at aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an
offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv