[Avodah] Pregnant women's sakana brought on by sense of smell

[Dr. Josh Backon]

At 03:15 AM 8/31/2006 -0400, hankman wrote:
>Thank you for your response, but from the nature of your response I gather
>that this was quite a stretch and that you were grasping at straws in order
>to interpret divrei chazal. I say this because instead of simply quoting any
>standard medical text on diseases and their description, you chose to search
>out some far flung research journals (i.e., not things that are well known



You asked for the **normal** situation (pregnant woman). I didn't discuss the
pathophysiology of hyperosmia [uncinate gyrus epilepsy, migraine,
adrenocortical
insufficiency, very rare cases of drug reaction).

The gemara in Yoma (and the Shulchan Aruch ORACH CHAYIM 617:2) discuss the
case of a pregnant woman on Yom Kippur.


>to every medical practitioner for the last 2000 years, things not well
>proven and accepted as fact but still experimental and being researched and
>based on the research you cite some of which is not accepted by all and in
>dispute). You cite a study on rabbits and another on mother's diet and


Excuse me ? I provided the LATEST research on the subject [references below]
That very recent research has debunked the theory that pregnant women are more
sensitive to odors has to be taken into consideration by poskim. And I showed
that the latest research on the fetus being sensitive to odors shows that
Rashi
was 101% correct (950 years ago).


>neonates and the effect on their sense of smell, but we are discussing
>humans in utero. Furthermore, the research you cite (based on their titles,
>I have not read them, please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption
>from the titles) does not refer to any danger to life, immediate or
>otherwise, based on disregarding the desire brought on by the smell.
>




There is a neuropsychiatric component to hyperosmia and I mentioned this.
But you have it farblondjet: it's not that the odor causes the uncontrollable
desire to eat; it's the histrionic personality of other medical condition that
sensitizes the organism to the odor. 


Could that be considered "life threatening" ? The gemara never hints at this.
Indeed, anything "life threatening" would engender the concept of "pikuach
nefesh"
so your question is meaningless. It could, however, be in the category of
"ahnus"
where the person has an uncontrollable desire brought about by other
factors.



>Also, Bulimia Nervosa is a condition where at best, the time for risk to
>life is measured in years or decades, not the same day.


You're aqain bringing in a strawman argument since NO ONE refers to or
discusses
any immediate risk let alone pikuach nefesh.


>
>If I am wrong in any of my above assertions, I will gladly defer to you as I
>am only a lay person in these matters.
>


You should make like Greyhound and leave the driving to us :-)

Reread all the references I provided below.

>Kol Tuv
>
>Chaim Manaster
>
>
>
>> R. Chaim Manaster asked:
>> >Any medical types on the list? Is there any syndrome known to modern
>>
>....
>Dr. JB responded:
>> There may be enhanced olfactory sensitivity in bulimia [what may be what
>> the gemara
>> calls "bulmus"]. There is olfactory dysfunction in neuropsychiatric
>> disorder (Martzke JS,
>> Kopala LC, Good KP. Olfactory dysfunction in neuropsychiatric disorders:
>> review
>> and methodological considerations. Biol Psychiatry. 1997 Oct
>> 15;42(8):721-32).
>>
>CM wrote:
>> >The closest I can come up with (but no cigar) is the strange eating
>desires
>> >of women when pregnant, I guess brought on by all the hormonal changes
>> brought
>> >on by pregnancy, (I assume this is true and not fiction), as well as
>morning
>> >sickness. But I doubt these conditions can put the mother in significant
>> danger?
>>
>>
>Dr. JB responded:
>> The hypothesis that there is enhanced olfactory sensitivity in pregnant
>> women has
>> been recently debunked (Swallow BL, Lindow SW, Aye M, Masson EA, Alasalvar
>C,
>> Quantick P, Hanna J. Smell perception during early pregnancy: no evidence
>> of an
>> adaptive mechanism. BJOG. 2005 Jan;112(1):57-62).
>>
>CM wrote:
>> >Rashi seems to learn that the fetus smells the odor. Does a fetus in
>> utero  have
>> >a sense of smell? Can the odor wafting about in the atmosphere get
>through
>> all the
>> >layers to reach the fetus even if it has a developed sense of smell? I
>> imagine,
>> >it would not? Anyone who knows? I think some are maghia rashi so that it
>> is the mother
>> >who smells the odor, not the fetus?
>>
>Dr. JB responded:
>> The fetus may be sensitive to certain odors. RASHI was 100% correct.
>....
>> Semke E, Distel H, Hudson R. Specific enhancement of olfactory receptor
>> sensitivity associated with foetal learning of food odors in the rabbit.
>> Naturwissenschaften. 1995 Mar;82(3):148-9.
>>
>> Schaal B, Marlier L, Soussignan R. Human foetuses learn odours from their
>> pregnant
>> mother's diet. Chem Senses. 2000 Dec;25(6):729-37.
>>
>> Olfactory responsiveness was assessed in 24 neonates born to mothers who
>> had or had
>> not consumed anise flavour during pregnancy. Both groups of infants were
>> followed-up
>> for behavioural markers of attraction and aversion when exposed to anise
>> odour and a
>> control odour immediately after birth and on day 4. Infants born to
>> anise-consuming
>> mothers evinced a stable preference for anise odour over this period,
>> whereas those
>> born to anise non-consuming mothers displayed aversion or neutral
>> responses. This
>> study provides the first clear evidence that through their diet human
>mothers
>> influence the hedonic polarity of their neonates' initial olfactory
>responses.
>> The findings have potential implications for the early mother-to-infant
>> transmission of chemosensory information relative to food and addictive
>> products.
>>
>>
>> Schaal B, Marlier L, Soussignan R. Olfactory function in the human fetus:
>> evidence
>> from selective neonatal responsiveness to the odor of amniotic fluid.
>Behav
>> Neurosci.
>> 1998 Dec;112(6):1438-49.
>> ===================================================
>>
>> KT
>>
>> Josh
>
>
>
>
>-- 


Josh