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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>“(the <i>tipcha</i> would be the main break, but since it's immediately before a stronger <i>mafsiq</i> [the <i>silluq</i>], it's not really a break!).”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>The Tipha is the biggest break in the 2<sup>nd</sup> half of the verse. The fact that it comes immediately before the silluq does not affect this in any way. When one reads these words, the biggest break, between the etnahta and the silluq should be on the tipha. Not sure what you mean, then, that it is not really a break.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>“the <i>pasuq</i> intended that the emphasis be on Y'hudah going sheep-shearing w/ his friend (and thus on Tamar's actions).”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>I agree with this analysis, but I it does not give a full picture of what is happening here. One needs to address the logical price for emphasizing the shearing in Timna.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>In theory, if only logic ruled, and not story-telling considerations, one would have expected the break on Yehuda. It would have been munah zakef. Zarka-Segol only ever appear in the first half of a verse. By putting the main break on HaAdulami, it sounds as if he not only did the shearing, but that is also where he was comforted:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Va’yinahem … Va’ya’al … where? (break) in Timna.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>But that is not what the verse means. The being comforted happened beforehand, and is given as the reason that enabled him to go shearing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>So yes, this logic was broken in order to make the shearing the focus of the verse. But one needs to define, and hence limit, when the te’amim are prepared to pull a trick like that: breaking the logic to enhance the story.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Yitzhak<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Michael Poppers <michaelpoppers@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 10 December 2023 6:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> Yitzhak Ajzner <yitzhakajz@gmail.com>; mesorah@aishdas.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] <span lang=HE dir=RTL>וישב ל"ח י"ב הוא</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Just saying: a Zakef makes absolutely no sense at all!</span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'> <<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>RYA, agreed -- as I wrote to Mesorah this past Fri@1501ET: "...I would (and do) lein w/ a <i>r'vi'a</i>: as per a recent discussion, <i>zaqeif</i> would break the main post-<i>esnachta</i> phrase at that word (<i>hu</i>), but I think the next phrase must be connected to the <i>hu</i>, so better a <i>r'vi'a</i> on <i>hu</i> so that the main phrase essentially is the entire set of words after the <i>esnachta</i> (the <i>tipcha</i> would be the main break, but since it's immediately before a stronger <i>mafsiq</i> [the <i>silluq</i>], it's not really a break!)."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>The real question in this verse, is why is the main break in the 2</span><sup><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>nd</span></sup><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'> half of the verse on HaAdulami, and not on Yehuda. </span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'><<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue'>If, let us say, "vayinacheim Y'hudah" was graced w/ <i>zarqa segol</i> in order to be the main break, the emphasis would be on Y'huda's widowerhood -- apparently, the <i>pasuq</i> intended that the emphasis be on Y'hudah going sheep-shearing w/ his friend (and thus on Tamar's actions).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 5:01 AM Yitzhak Ajzner via Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Just saying: a Zakef makes absolutely no sense at all!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>This is how the 2<sup>nd</sup> half of the verse divides up (from Michael Perlman’s Humash):</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'><img border=0 width=865 height=75 style='width:9.0083in;height:.7833in' id="m_880393342310261613Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01DA2BB6.E4F318B0"></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Putting a zakef on “hu”, means this section splits on that word, which would make the verse incomprehensible.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>The real question in this verse, is why is the main break in the 2<sup>nd</sup> half of the verse on HaAdulami, and not on Yehuda. Timnata modifies Va’ya’al, and has nothing to do with Va’yinahem. By putting the main break on HaAdulami, it seems like it also modifies Va’yinahem, but it doesn’t. Although it would require quite an effort, that can be explained.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Yitzhak</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>rabbirichwolpoe via Mesorah<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 10 December 2023 4:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> rabbirichwolpoe <<a href="mailto:rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:mesorah@aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@aishdas.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] <span lang=HE dir=RTL>וישב ל"ח י"ב הוא</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>the publisher would be first in line to tell you that this <i>seifer</i> is not entirely based on Heidenheim>><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Absolutely true<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>BUT<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>In my experience he is usually close to RWH<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This specific deviation was a bit of a surprise to me<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There are other cases where RWH might be more controversial. But afaict not this one<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>FWIW, I did confim this morning with 1 of my Roedelheim Humashim that RWH Has a revia.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_880393342310261613composer_signature"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>RRW<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Mesorah mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">Mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/mesorah-aishdas.org" target="_blank">http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/mesorah-aishdas.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>