<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1255"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><font color="#0056d6" class="">><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">that the development from the temporal sense to the wider meanings<</span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">I wonder if the same happened to the words <i class="">K’an</i> and <i class="">Kdon</i>.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">In the <i class="">Tanach</i> the word <i class="">“K’an</i>” as it appears in Ezra and Daniel only, means “now”.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">I did not find the word “<i class="">Kadun</i>”, only in the targum called “Targum Yonatan”.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">A person that speaks Aramaic told me that both words mean “now”.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">The origin of the words (he said) are K’IDAN” .</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">It looks like these words in the old days and also today mean “Now”.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">When we read the source and the commentaries, there are verses in the Tanach where it is clear that the meaning of “NA”</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">is “please”, or at least a word that comes to soften a command, still the Targumim write “k’an” or “kadun”.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: medium;" class="">It is hard for me to understand that the Targumim understood almost all “na” as “now”.</span></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">Do these two words widen to the meaning of <i class="">baksha</i> or <i class="">idun (</i>soften, moderate<i class="">)</i>?</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">Thanks,</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class="">Aharon</font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div>I wonder if the <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 14, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Mandel, Seth <<a href="mailto:mandels@ou.org" class="">mandels@ou.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">That was my point, that the development from the temporal sense to the wider meanings is common among many languages, not only English, but Hebrew, Aramaic, German, and others. So it should be a surprise to no one that a word meaning "at this time" also has these other usages in other languages. and so would be used to translate "v¯atta" in German, English, Spanish, and Aramaic.<br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="Signature" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; margin: 0px;" class=""><div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div class=""><font size="3" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel</span><br class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""></span></font><hr tabindex="-1" style="display: inline-block; width: 1190.6875px;" class=""><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Aharon Gal <<a href="mailto:galsaba@aol.com" class="">galsaba@aol.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, November 13, 2019 9:40 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mandel, Seth <<a href="mailto:mandels@ou.org" class="">mandels@ou.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Mesorah] KEAN, NA, VE'ATA</font><div class=""> </div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;">It looks like the word K’AN in is very similar to the word “Now” as described by Merriam-Webster Dictionary:</font><div class=""><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;"><span class="x_sn x_sense-1 x_a" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-weight: 700; line-height: 22px; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="x_num" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; left: 0px; top: 0px;">1</span><span class="x_letter" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; left: 33px;">a</span></span><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0.2px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></span></font><span class="x_dt" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="x_dtText" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px; line-height: 22px; font-size: 14px;"><span class="x_mw_t_bc" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">1. : </span>At the present time or moment</font><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px; line-height: 22px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande"><span class="x_mw_t_it" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">"Now</span> is the time for action".</font></span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px; line-height: 22px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;"><span class="x_sn x_sense-2" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-weight: 700; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_num" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; left: 0px; top: 0px;">2</span></span><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0.2px;"></span></font><span class="x_dt" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; display: inline;"><span class="x_uns" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_un" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_mdash" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande">2. </font></span><span class="x_unText" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;">Used with the sense of present time weakened or lost to express command, request, or admonition</font></span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px; line-height: 22px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 14px;">(“ðà</span><span class="" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 14px;">”</span><span class="" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 14px; font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"> in Hebrew . àäøï)</span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="font-variant: inherit; letter-spacing: 0.2px; line-height: 22px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span class="x_dt" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; display: inline;"><span class="x_uns" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_un" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_unText" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_vis" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_vi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande"><span class="x_mw_t_wi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;">"now</span> hear this"</font></span></span></span><span class="x_vi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 10px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande"><span class="x_mw_t_wi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;">"now</span> you be sure to write"</font></span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 10px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;"><span class="x_sn x_sense-3" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-weight: 700; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_num" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; left: 0px; top: 0px;">3</span></span><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0.2px;"></span></font><span class="x_dt" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; display: inline;"><span class="x_uns" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_un" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_mdash" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande">3. </font></span><span class="x_unText" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;">Used with the sense of present time weakened or lost to introduce an important point or indicate a transition (as of ideas)</font><span class="x_vis" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_vi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px; font-size: 14px;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande"><span class="x_mw_t_wi" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;">"now</span>, this may seem reasonable at first"</font></span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class=""></font></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande" style="font-size: 14px;">Here is the complete page:</font></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: 'Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-style: inherit; color: rgb(34, 95, 115); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><span class="x_mw_t_sp" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; letter-spacing: 0.2px;"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.merriam-2Dwebster.com_dictionary_now-3Fsrc-3Dsearch-2Ddict-2Dhed&d=DwMF_Q&c=VTwaeXjOsAHot2hQQ0nozrBJwyviuCtydNuGwYGfYiI&r=e6XbAQdGwcl_5FMtQ-t1eA&m=wvJPT3TvDMzouEmNYav3on_vR_XAG8RxOvBZub2YWm8&s=EgOYJKdQDpookXupUOgjsNBrgRtuv0A5k22TIXd058c&e=" class="">https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/now?src=search-dict-hed</a></span></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: 'Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-style: inherit; color: rgb(34, 95, 115); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><br class=""></span><span class="x_t x_sents x_ex-sent x_first-child x_no-aq" style="font-size: 14px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; letter-spacing: 0.2px; padding-bottom: 0px !important;"><font class="" face="Lucida Grande">Aharon</font></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 12, 2019, at 1:07 PM, Mandel, Seth <<a href="mailto:mandels@ou.org" class="">mandels@ou.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">First of all, let us be precise. You mean w‘atTO, and not ’atTO or ’OTto.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">The word ‘atTO as a proper adverb has the specific meaning of "now," as opposed to "previously" or "later." That is also the meaning of Aramaic k‘an.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">However, to go further, just look at the English word "now." Besides its temporal meaning, it is used as a conjunctive preposition, e.g. in a clause like "and now we see that Senator X is not telling the truth." The two words "and" plus "now" mean that in almost all languages. It means "in light of what we have said or discussed."</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">So "and" plus "now" serves as a conjunctive adverb for the entire clause.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">(See how I pulled a fast one: I began the last sentence with "so," which has the exact same meaning, "in light of what we said.")</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">But there are certain syntactical limitations for using the word/phrase in that way: it has to be at the beginning of the sentence, usually with the vav. If the word appears elsewhere, it has the normal adverbial temporal meaning.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">One needs look no further than p'sukim that one says every day. All Jewish communities say in P'sukei d'Zimra before starting Chapters 145-150 of Sefer T'hillim a few other p'suqqim. The second of them is from Psalms 113:2:<br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><p dir="RTL" class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 15.693333625793457px; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: right; direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;"><span class="" lang="HE" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: David, sans-serif;">éÀäÄé ùÑÅí éÀéÈ îÀáÉøÈêÀ îÅòÇúÌÈä åÀòÇã-òåÉìÈí</span></p>It is absolutely clear that the meaning here is the temporal one.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">OTOH, after the end of Chapter 150 of T'hillim, a few p'sukim from various places outside of T'hillim, including the section beginning "Vayvorekh David," 4 psukim from I Chronicles 29:10-13.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">The last of those p'suqqim states</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span dir="RTL" class="" lang="HE" style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.693333625793457px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span><div class="" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" lang="HE" style="font-family: David, sans-serif;"></span><span dir="LTR" class="" style="font-family: David, sans-serif;"></span><span dir="RTL" class="" lang="HE" style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.1200008392334px; font-family: David, sans-serif;">åÀòÇúÌÈä àÁìÉ÷ÅéðåÌ îåÉãÄéí àÂðÇçÀðåÌ ìÈêÀ, åÌîÀäÇìÀìÄéí ìÀùÑÅí úÌÄôÀàÇøÀúÌÆêÈ</span><span dir="LTR" class=""></span><span dir="LTR" class=""></span><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.1200008392334px; font-family: David, sans-serif;"><span dir="LTR" class=""></span><span dir="LTR" class=""></span>.</span><br class=""></div><span dir="RTL" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.693333625793457px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="HE" style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal;"></span></span>If one looks at the section, it is absolutely clear that this is the second of the two meanings we mentioned, and should be translated "So/and now/in light of this." Note that the words are at the beginning and have the vav.</div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">To summarize: in English, as in Biblical Hebrew, as in many other languages, the word "now" is both used in a temporal sense and as a clause modifier "it follows/in light of this."<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Aramaic uses the word "k‘an" in both senses also. In particular, we find t'shuvos of the G'onim which use the word "k‘an" at the beginning of a sentence clearly in the second meaning, so [excuse the word] it is a real Aramaic usage, not something that only Unqulos used for his translation.<br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">The Biblical word "na" has a different considerations and I will leave that for another time.<br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br class=""></div><div id="x_Signature" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;"><div id="x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div name="x_divtagdefaultwrapper" class="" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; margin: 0px;"><div class="x_BodyFragment"><font class="" size="2"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt;"><div class="x_PlainText"><font class="" size="3" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt;">Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel</span><br class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt;">Rabbinic Coordinator</span><br class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt;">The Orthodox Union</span><br class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font><font class="" size="3" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt;">Voice and Fax (212) 613-8330 e-mail<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mandels@ou.org" class="">mandels@ou.org</a></span></font></div></span></font></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br class=""></div><hr tabindex="-1" class="" style="display: inline-block; width: 1190.6875px;"><div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font class="" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b class="">From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org</a>> on behalf of Aharon Gal via Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, November 11, 2019 8:36 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" class="">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Mesorah] KEAN, NA, VE'ATA</font><div class=""> </div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class="" style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">I want to have a better understanding about the words NA and ATA in Hebrew, </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">Seems to me that NA is not just “now” or just “please”. </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">As for the word ATA, and more “VE’ATA”, based on the pesukim, it sounds in many places as “therefore”, rather than “now”.</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">In Vayera “IM NA MATZATI CHEN”, Unkelos translates NA as “Kean”. “Kean” is known as “now”, but does really Unkelos mean “now”? i am not sure if “kean” is always “now”, and if it is “now” in this pasuk. </div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">Also I curious to know why Yonatan Ben Uziel translates NA in this pasuk as “bevau” and “kadun”. This shows me that NA is not exactly “please” and not exactly “now”.</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">I am aware what Rashi says about the word NA, and what the Ibn Ezra says, but their perushim not always work when I try to replace NA with what their explanation.</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px;">On the pasuk “Erda Na ve’er’e ha’ke’tza’a’tah,”, it is hard for me to accept that here NA is “Please”, but also I am not sure that it means “now” . I don’t see why the adverb “now” is needed here<span class="" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;">.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; min-height: 15px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">I am sure people wrote about the word “NA”. I am interested to know what your opinion on this word. More than this, I would like to know what “Kean” is. Seems to me that it is more than “now.</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; min-height: 15px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Thanks,</div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; min-height: 15px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="margin: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Aharon</div></div></div></div><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;"> </span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;"> </span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; background-color: rgb(234, 241, 247); border: 1px dotted rgb(0, 53, 148); padding: 0.8em;"><span class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 53, 148);">Legal Disclaimer</span><br class=""><div class="" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-size: 8pt; line-height: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The contents of this email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. You must not use or disclose them other than for the purposes for which they were supplied. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Any privilege or confidentiality pertaining to this email and attachments is not waived by reason of mistaken delivery to you.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>