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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">so Ohr haChaim is possibly the source for the chasidic usage, since he was very much used by them. As was the alSheikh.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">The Malbim is after the advent of Chasidus.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">The AlSheikh is the earliest, and he was a talmid of the M'habber and one of the rebbis of R. Chaim Vital. But he was not a talmid of the Ari, and although he lived at the time, his works do not use qabbolo much except
for references to the Zohar. In one of his letters, he discusses his education and never mentions qabbolo.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Which leads me back to my original question: despite the claims made, I do not remember either the Ari nor the Vilner Gaon using the term when they refer to qabbolo.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">I am not quibbling (although curmudgeons such as I do that all the time). I am trying to discover the origin of the notion that "p'nimiyus haTorah" is taken as separate method/\area of study vs. "chitzoniyus haTorah,"
which is the way it seems to be used nowadays. That is a major change from just referring to ideas that are indicated but not mentioned explicitly. The latter is more akin to the idea of "Da'as Torah" advanced nowadays, which means that it is implicit but
not explicit, but is not considered (yet?) a separate area for study.<br>
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<div class="PlainText"><font size="3" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 6, 2018 6:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mandel, Seth; mesorah@aishdas.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Mesorah] "P'nimiyus"</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The Or haChaim uses the term: Shemos 22:14, Vayiqra 18:4, Bamidbar 23:22.<br>
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The Alshich uses “penimiyus haTorah” 5 times. (E.g. Devarim 5, “vayitneim eilay”.<br>
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All in all, Bar Ilan has 122 hits. I see the Malbim is on the list: Bereishis 3:21, Shemos 22:20.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Mesorah <mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Mandel, Seth via Mesorah<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 5, 2018 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> mesorah@aishdas.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Mesorah] "P'nimiyus"</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">You know me by now with my interest in words and terms. Sometimes the origins of words and term can tell us a lot.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">Chasidic writers talk a lot about "pnimiyus haTorah." Since we all know what the word means, I never paid attention. But recently I saw someone who claimed that the Ari and the
Vilner Gaon talk about p'nimiyus haTorah, which made me pause. AFAIK, both of those source talk a about the qabbolo and the sodos of qabbolo, but I do not recall either using the term "pnimiyus haTorah."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">I may be wrong,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">Does anyone know a use of the term "pnimiyus haTorah" before Chasidus started?</span></p>
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