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<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Mechón Mamet uses a technical rule: every mafsiq on trop gets at least a comma. Regardless of whether it makes any sense</span>
<</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#0000ff">"<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">every</span>"? In that <i>pasuq</i>, did MM list a comma after "l'qachtanu" (<i>tipcha</i>)? <a href="http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/t/t0214.htm">No</a>.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="ltr">Mechón Mamet uses a technical rule: every mafsiq on trop gets at least a comma. Regardless of whether it makes any sense. </div>
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Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel <span id="m_4103540134116617508draft-break"></span><br>
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<div class="m_4103540134116617508null" dir="auto">On January 28, 2018 at 11:28:58 AM CST, Akiva Miller via Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
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<div class="m_4103540134116617508null"><span class="">In the thread "a kleinigkeit", Rabbi Mandel posted a pasuk which is an<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
excellent illustration of a question I've wondered about. He posted it<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
as:
</span><p class="m_4103540134116617508null"><span class="">יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַיִם<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ<br class="m_4103540134116617508null"></span>
לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ מִמִּצְרָvayomru el Moshe" is zarka-segol. Why would<span class=""><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
anyone put a comma for zarka? Does the zarka function as a mafsik<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
here? "Vayomru el Moshe" is a phrase, a unit in which a comma is<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
totally inappropriate. What am I missing?</span></p>
<p class="m_4103540134116617508null">Akiva Miller</p>
<p class="m_4103540134116617508null"><span class="">On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
<<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> I call it that because most people only care about masorah if it changes the<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> meaning or the pronunciation.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> But the non-defenestrated denizens of the Mesorah group understand that the<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> masorah is much deeper than such things, and is important in light of the<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> number of rishonim who spent time on it.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> So I am mentioning something that I shamefully admit that I was unaware of<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> all my years:<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> In the pasuq:<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null"></span>
> יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַ לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> מִמִּצְרָ</p><div><div class="h5"><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> regarding the word "hamibb'li," all printed Chumashim have the punctuation<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> as is above, with a hataph-patah under the he'.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> However, that is not the puncuation in the kisvei yad that represent the<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> Ben-Asher masorah. Rather, all of them, without exception have a full patah<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> — WITH a ge‘aya/AKA meteg. As the meritorious members of this group are<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> aware, that means that the syllable "ha" is lengthened and has a secondary<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> stress.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> The Minchas Shai already noticed this issue. He notes that R. Yonah had it<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> with a full patah, and it is the R'DaQ who says it should be a hataph-patah<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> based on S'faradi mss. He even goes on to say that there are some who claim<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> that the ms. on which R.Yonah was basing himself was the Aleppo Codex. That<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> means to me that the Minchas Shay, without being able to decide the matter,<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> attaches serious weight to the view of R. Yonah.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> In any event, now we can be certain based on the better mss. that we have.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> Prescriptive grammarians, who hold that the he' hash'elah should always have<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> a hataph-patah, of course will be disturbed. But as we know, the Masorah<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> did not believe in prescriptive grammar, only in descriptive.<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
><br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel<br class="m_4103540134116617508null">
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