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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">excellent. my thanks.<br>
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<div class="PlainText"><font size="3" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel<br>
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The Orthodox Union<br>
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Voice (212) 613-8330 Fax (212) 613-0718 e-mail mandels@ou.org</font></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Mesorah <mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org> on behalf of Dov Bloom via Mesorah <mesorah@lists.aishdas.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 28, 2018 7:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yitzchak M. Gottlieb<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mesorah@aishdas.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] a kleinigkeit</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Thank you all for the excellent discussion so far.
<div>I think it is important to expand the discussion to the other occurrences of haMibeli.</div>
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<div>Massoretic notes: [Attesting that the Massoretes treated the 4 cases as a unit]<br>
The Massora Gedola of the Mikraot Gedolot notes on Shmot 14:11 that there are 4 occurrences of this word: Shmot 14:11, Melachim Bet 1:3,6 and 16.
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Likewise in Melachim there are notes in the Massora Gedola of 4 cases, and in the Massora Ktana stating 4 or 4 (3 here in Melachim plus ein kvarim). Also in the Final Massora.<br>
Ginsburg (letter Bet sigla 316 ) notes that he found this Massora rubric in 4 manuscripts plus the printed MkGd.<br>
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<div>The Keter doesnt show any Massora Ktana or Gedola that I found.</div>
<div>Leningrad has Massoretic notes, more on that at the end.<br>
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<div>The Text:</div>
<div>An examination of my Leningrad facsimile edition shows all 4 cases of haMibeli are pointed with a plain patach + a ga'aya. This has been noted in our discussion, and fits in with the opinion R Seth quoted from the Minhat Shai Shmot 14:11 who says this
is R Yonah's opinion. For those of you who don't have the excellent Betzer edition of the Minhat Shai, or may not be acquainted with R Yona, that was R Yonah Ibn Janach in his Sefer HaRiqma, page 373.</div>
<div>In the Keter (Allepo Codex) Shmot is of course missing, however the 3 occurrences in Melachim are existant. In all 3 cases in Melachim, I see in the excellent Keter-on-line, a hataf-patach plus a ga'aya. This correlates with the second opinion R Seth quoted
from the Minchat Shai, that of Radak in his Michlol page 46 amud bet. </div>
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<div>This would be good reason for saying, in the absence of any really strong contrary proofs, that the Keter had in Shmot 14:11, our pasuk, a hataf-patach plus a meteg also. </div>
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I want to add that seems what is probably Breuer's justification for the hataf-patach + gaaya . It is not due, with all due respect to R Seth, to Breuer's unique shita as to the ga'ayot (about which I am certainly no expert ) but due to hard Keter text evidence
from 3 places in Melachim.</div>
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<div>On the mistaken MG in Leningrad on this word, and on the words of Eliyahu HaBachur quoted by R Seth from the Minhat Shai, that will have to wait for another night, it is already 2 AM.</div>
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<div>Dov Bloom<br>
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Yitzchak M. Gottlieb via Mesorah
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Before commenting on the topic itself, I would like to thank all of you for the wonderful discussion.<br>
<span class="x_gmail-"><br>
On Jan 28, 2018, at 15:34, Danny Levy via Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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> I looked in R. Breuer's book - he does not mention this case.<br>
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</span>In טעמי המקרא, pg. 195, Brueur lists המבלי as an example of געית שוא. In that same section, he gives other examples of געיות שוא on חטפים.<br>
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Zuki<br>
<span class="x_gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Yitzchak M. Gottlieb<br>
<a href="mailto:zukigottlieb@gmail.com">zukigottlieb@gmail.com</a><br>
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<div class="x_gmail_signature">Dov A Bloom<br>
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