<div dir="ltr"><div>R' Mandel,<br></div><div><br>I concede my lack of understanding, even after using the web to attempt to comb over my ignorance of grammar, of the difference between the perfect and imperfect forms that you describe. "Hamiten" appears to be an imperative and "tichtovna" appears be an indicative, while it sounds like the distinction between perfect and imperfect would be one between "katav" and "haya koteiv", and I can't even quite imagine what an imperfect imperative would look like. <br><br></div><div>Be that as it may, how would we explain the difference between "kir'en lo v'yochal lachem" and "k'rena li Mara", where the words seem to fill the same grammatical function? The suggestion of R' Teitz appears to fit this distinction well.<br><br></div><div>Joshua Meisner<br></div><div><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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The perfect and imperfect forms have nothing to do with each other. hamitten is perfect, the fm. of hamittem. Compare Aramaic k'tavtun (masc) vs k'tavtin (fm).
<p>In contrast, in the imperfect, the Hebrew would have in 3rd person yikht'vu (m) vs. tikhtovna (f), whereas Aramaic would have yikht'vun (m) vs. yikht'van (fm).</p>
<p>Normal rules from ProtoSemitic to Hebrew vs. Aramaic would predict that in the imperfect forms in Hebrew would have no -n at that end in masculine, and would have either -n or -na in the feminine. Cf. lakh (to you) in Aramaic corresponds to Hebrew l'kha
or lakh (pausal).<br>
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<div class="m_8207097388733117869PlainText"><font face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Seth Mandel<br>
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<div id="m_8207097388733117869divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah-bounces@lists.<wbr>aishdas.org</a>> on behalf of elazar teitz via Mesorah <<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 24, 2017 4:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zev Sero<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:mesorah@aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@aishdas.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] Feminine plural imperative</font>
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<div dir="ltr"> Could it be that the nun suffix is for a command, while the "na" is for a request (as in "ts'ena urena" and "leichna shovna" (i.e., as though it were written "ts'en na")?
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Zev Sero via Mesorah <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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What is the standard Biblical suffix for the feminine plural imperative? -n, or -na? I had always thought it was -na, as in "ts'ena ur'ena", and that "kiren lo" in last week's parsha is an exception. But someone pointed out to me that there's also "vahamiten"
in the same parsha, and claimed that in the language of the Chumash this is the standard form, but it had changed by the time Shir Hashirim was written. Can anyone shed light on this?<span class="m_8207097388733117869HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
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-- <br>
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,<br>
<a href="mailto:zev@sero.name" target="_blank">zev@sero.name</a> be a brilliant year for us all<br>
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