<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I was just discussing this (#4) with a friend recently. Here's what I wrote:</span><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Regarding "Av haRachamim" on Shabbat </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Isru</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Chag</span><span style="font-size:12.8px">: I know what R' Tukachinsky writes, but I have a hard time understanding his argument. It's based on chu"l (because it's still yom tov there, there are no yotzrot for that Shabbat and so the mourning period hasn't started yet), and yet in chu"l they davka ARE saying "Av haRachamim" that day, as part of Yizkor. As far as it simply being </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">isru</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">chag</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> goes, note that in Machzor Nuremberg (available online at </span><a href="http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/mss-pr/mahzor-nuremberg/" target="_blank" style="font-size:12.8px">http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/mss-pr/mahzor-nuremberg/</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">), there are </span><b style="font-size:12.8px">selichot </b><span style="font-size:12.8px">for </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">isru</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">chag</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> Pesach. Of course, that would never be on on Shabbat in chu"l, but still, it this shows that it can't be argued that the mourning period for the Crusades inherently hasn't started on </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Isru</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Chag</span><span style="font-size:12.8px">. And looking at our modern Israeli calendar, I think it would be particularly appropriate to say "Av haRachamim" on the Shabbat before Yom haShoah.</span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:39 PM, R Davidovich via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Number 4) is justified on the grounds that it is Isru Chag.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div>RD</div></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Nehemiah Klein via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">There are many things where EY is influenced by chutz la'aretz.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">1) "vese-erav" before Birkas Kohanim is only said in musaf on Yom Tov, clearly it is because in chutz la'aretz they only do Birkas Kohanim on Yom Tov even though in Eretz Yisrael this should be said every day.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">2) Ditto for the singing to allow the people to say the tefillos for the dreams, that too should really be done every day here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">3) see Machtzis Hashekel regarding Hoshanos - "e-eroch shui" should be the first day of Chol Hamoed, The same chart is used in Eretz Yisrael even though that means "e-roch shui" is being said on the third day of Sukkos which in Eretz Yisrael is the second day of Chol Hamoed, it really should be said the day before on the second day of Sukkos.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">4) although "av harachamim" is said during sefirah even on Shabbos mevorchim, in Eretz Yisrael where what is the "eighth day of Pesach" in chutz la'aretz is an ordinary Shabbos Av Harachamim is not said - presumably because in chutz la'aretz it is Yom Tov.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">5) Yizkor, I believe was instituted on the eighth day of Pesach, second day of Shavuos, and Shmini Atzeres because "ish kematnas yado" is read, in Eretz Yisrael the kriyah of "kol habechor" is never read yet Yizkor was added on the last days of the three regalim.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">There are more examples which I cannot think of right now, if I think of them I will IY"H post them.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">By the way the "minhagei Eretz Yisrael" as far as I can see are largely taken from Nusach Sefard and only a few from the Gr"a.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Richard Wolpoe via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div> <div lang="en-US"><div><br></div><div>It seems there is a tremendous influence imposed by Minhag E"Y on local minhog here</div><div><br></div><div>EG</div><div>When I was a boy, virtually all minyan men in mainline nusach Ashkenaz Shuls wore Tefillin duringChol HaMoed</div><div><br></div><div>The Ben-Yehudah Mivta was odd. I remember when we first heard a Professor from Israel using Modern Israeli pronunciation in shul over stanadrad AshkenazI and we thought it was hilarious. Now it is uniquitous.</div><div><br></div><div>Many Ashkenaz Shuls have abandoned Baruch Hashem L'olam at Ma'ariv</div><div><br></div><div>Of course some of these may be attributed to the Influence of the GRA and to the Rav A"H. But it seems that the E"Y influence is even more common. EG an Israeli who davens "nusach sefarad" skips Baruch Hashem L'olam. I don't believe this is due to the influence of Nusach Arizal, nor to the influence of the GRA. It appears to me that the most powerful common denominator is that Minhag E"Y has spread to American and changed nusach and minhog quite extensively within the last 50 years.</div></div>
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