<div dir="ltr">The verbal form in Hebrew that corresponds to the present in English is generally regarded as a participle, a kind of adjective derived from a verb. (See, for example, <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius%27_Hebrew_Grammar/50._The_Participle">https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius%27_Hebrew_Grammar/50._The_Participle</a> and <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius%27_Hebrew_Grammar/116._The_Participles">https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius%27_Hebrew_Grammar/116._The_Participles</a>.) I think this may explain why translating directly into English ("building of Y-M" etc.) sounds so strange.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-01-19 12:44 GMT-05:00 Zev Sero via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On 01/19/2016 12:27 PM, Micha Berger wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:47:21AM -0500, Zev Sero via Mesorah wrote:<br>
: On 01/19/2016 10:32 AM, Micha Berger via Mesorah wrote:<br>
: >"Bonei" is the semichut, we shift to tzeirei not to change from "building"<br>
: >to builder" but to add the "of" for "of Y-m".<br>
:<br>
: But we only do this for the noun, not for the verb. "Vayhi boneh `ir."<br>
<br>
Again, I am asserting there is no noun vs verb. You are imposing<br>
categories that are not native to the domain.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
But there clearly is a verb, since it doesn't change when attached to<br>
an object. Again, "vayhi boneh `ir", or as RSM cited, "`oseh shomayim<br>
vo'oretz".<span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the idea that what you think are two concepts are supposed to be phrased<br>
in a way that would be ambiguous<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Except that they aren't.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
(Why is the non-Chassid the one here arguing for omnisignificance?)<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Because whose ox is gored shouldn't make any difference. We are not<br>
lawyers making cases for our clients, and ignoring any evidence that's<br>
not helpful.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
But I am denying the "rather than". I am NOT claiming that "he is<br>
buiding" is the primary meaning, but that both meanings are primary<br>
and should really be thought of as one-and-thesame.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
I understand what you are claiming, but the words are primary, and<br>
they don't support it. Like RSM I don't think there's any difference<br>
in meaning between the verb and noun, but they are different words,<br>
and therefore they behave differently.<span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Zev Sero All around myself I will wave the green willow<br>
<a href="mailto:zev@sero.name" target="_blank">zev@sero.name</a> The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week<br>
And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that<br>
I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes<br>
I'll explain it to you".<br></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
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