<div dir="rtl"><div dir="ltr">There are similar frequent changes of tense in Shirat David, Shmuel II, 22. Look for example at pesukim 19, 20, 36, 37, 38 and 39. For the latter two, the parallel pesukim in Tehillim 18 "correct" the tenses to future only.</div><div dir="ltr">RYD's explanation works nicely here too, or maybe being a song, it is simply poetic licence.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This leads me to a question: if the Maftir mixes up the vavei hahipuch with the vavei hachibur when reading Shirat David (and many do), should he be corrected?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Danny Levy </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">2015-10-29 20:26 GMT+02:00 Michael Poppers via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span>:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">RYD responded:</div><span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">> <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">I was hoping some of the big guns may have already weighed in, but since not, may I propose that perhaps the simplest response is that every rule has its exceptions. It may also be related to what GKC 107b n.3 calls "dogmatic emendation ... in order to represent historical statements as promises". See</span><a style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/107._Use_of_the_Imperfect#cite_note-3" target="_blank">https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/107._Use_of_the_Imperfect#cite_note-3</a> <</div></span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">I was hoping that a listmember would come up w/ an explanation for what seemed like an exceptional case, so thank you, RYD!</div><span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">> <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Incidentally, although CDGinsburg lists no mss with such a vocalization, HUBP does refer to a Genizah ms with a kamatz there. And BHS of course cites other sources that testify to, or at least imply, a kamatz. (and while probably anathema to most members here, it should be mentioned that many [most?] modern commentators do recommend a revision to kamatz here. FWIW)</span> <</div></span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">Last night, I checked the Aleppo Codex Website and saw that the vav had a sh'va.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,sans-serif">A gut'n Shabbes and all the best from </span><font color="#9900ff" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><i>Michael</i></font></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Yisrael Dubitsky via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div>I was hoping some of the big guns may have already weighed in, but since not, may I propose that perhaps the simplest response is that every rule has its exceptions. It may also be related to what GKC 107b n.3 calls "dogmatic emendation ... in order to represent historical statements as promises". See <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/107._Use_of_the_Imperfect#cite_note-3" target="_blank">https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/107._Use_of_the_Imperfect#cite_note-3</a><br><br></div>Incidentally, although CDGinsburg lists no mss with such a vocalization, HUBP does refer to a Genizah ms with a kamatz there. And BHS of course cites other sources that testify to, or at least imply, a kamatz. (and while probably anathema to most members here, it should be mentioned that many [most?] modern commentators do recommend a revision to kamatz here. FWIW)<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gershon Dubin via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div>Even according to the Malbim it may still mean past tense; all the other mefarshim learn it clearly that way. Question stands. </div>
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<div>Gershon<br><a href="mailto:gershon.dubin@juno.com" target="_blank">gershon.dubin@juno.com</a><div><div><br><br>---------- Original Message ----------<br>From: Simon Montagu <<a href="mailto:simon.montagu@gmail.com" target="_blank">simon.montagu@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Gershon Dubin <<a href="mailto:gershon.dubin@juno.com" target="_blank">gershon.dubin@juno.com</a>><br>Cc: "<a href="mailto:mesorah@aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@aishdas.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:mesorah@aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@aishdas.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Vav hahipuch<br>Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:28:41 +0200<br><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Gershon Dubin via Mesorah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>Look at Yeshaya 48:3. In the word "ve'ashmi'em"; why does the nikud on the vav not change to kamatz since it's avar and not asid?</div>
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<div>Why are you sure it's avar? See Malbim <a href="https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%99%22%D7%9D_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95_%D7%9E%D7%97_%D7%92" target="_blank">https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%99%22%D7%9D_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95_%D7%9E%D7%97_%D7%92</a></div>
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