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FWDing to the list at RDB's request....
<br>-- Michael Poppers via BB pager</font></div>
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<b>From</b>: dov bloom <dovb@netvision.net.il>
<br><b>To</b>: Poppers, Michael
<br><b>Sent</b>: Sat Jun 16 15:49:31 2012<br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [Mesorah] Q re Masoretic note on "quMAH | H'" (Num 10:35)
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My messora ktana and messora gedola say "bet b'taam milra" and the MG lists Bamidbar 10:35 and Divre Hayamim Bet 6:41 and adds "vechol tehilot decavvate bar min chad (tehillim 35:2) which is mileil]<br />
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Ginsburg lists this in letter kuf number 119 as not "bet"[two] but "gimmel" [three], " which is what you asked about.<br />
The list given by Ginsburg is still exactly the same: Bemidbar 10:35, DHB 6:41 and all of thillim.<br />
<br />
For what it is worth, Frensdorf also has the count as 2 and not 3, but adds the same "vechol tehilot....", there is a messora sofit also on KufMem which in my copy also says 2 and not three with the addition of tehillim. The MF also has a "kumah 5 mileil" [penultimate and not ultimate syllable accented] but those are haser and not maleh ....<br />
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Minhat Shai Tehillim 3:8 and 44:27 brings down our Messora to verify a milra kuMAH. He quote our Messora "veChen kol 'kumah' asher baze hasefer zulati vekumah le'ezrati (35:2) shehu mileil {Radak UMassoret}".<br />
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This form of of an item in a Massora list being "kol [a certain book or part of tanach] " is well known and not uncommon, but tricky to decifer if you dont have the list because there are obviously a lot more than three haserim in tanach, - I think 9 in Tehillim alone. So you have to work on it and hope you find a list somewhere.<br />
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Breuer mentions these kinds of Massora lists in his intro to his Keter book (p 10 in the Hebrew intro and p XV in the English intro): <br />
He brings the example of " betulot dalet haser" but there are really 3 and the fourth is "kol megilla" - this type of comment as I said is especially difficult if you only have a Massora ktana without a list in the MG.<br />
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Summary: The Massora of 3 means: the 2 cases I listed and the third is "kol tehillim bar min chad" - <br />
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Interestingly [or not], the Minhat Shai is silent on the kuMAH question in Bamidbat 10:35. Probably because on that pasuk he has a <U>really long</U> comment on the "nunim hafuchim" issue, where he mentions in his <U>long</U> discussion of the subject that "OR TORAH he'erich yoter mimenni" and he says [in my paraphrase] " Be glad I am giving you the concise version" which is not so concise at all.<br />
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Michael, you can send this answer to the other list too.<br />
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DB the younger (Dov Bloom)<br />
Shavua Tov<br />
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">---- Original Message ----<BR><B>From</B>: "Poppers, Michael" <MPoppers@kayescholer.com><BR><B>To</B>: "mesorah@aishdas.org" <mesorah@aishdas.org><BR><B>Sent</B>: שיש, יונ 15, 2012, 20:50 PM<BR><B>Subject</B>: [Mesorah] Q re Masoretic note on "quMAH | H'" (Num 10:35)<BR><BR>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">The Masoretic note on </SPAN><SPAN class=ggmckafdhhb1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">"</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=ggmckafdhhb1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #222222; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">quMAH | H'</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=ggmckafdhhb1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">"</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060"> is </SPAN><SPAN class=ggmckafdhhb1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">"</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #222222">gimel b'ta'am mil'ra umalei up'siq,</SPAN><SPAN class=ggmckafdhhb1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">"</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060"> and I asked on another forum many days ago what the other two instances of “quMAH |” (frankly, with or without the vav, although I didn’t say that there) were; no one answered. Anyone here know? Thanks.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p></SPAN><br />
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN><br />
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">A gut'n Shabbos/Shabbas Shalom<o:p></o:p></SPAN><br />
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060">and all the best from<o:p></o:p></SPAN><br />
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Monotype Corsiva'; COLOR: #7030a0; FONT-SIZE: 16pt">Michael Poppers</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> * </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Baskerville Old Face','serif'; COLOR: #7030a0; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Elizabeth, NJ, USA</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: #002060"><o:p></o:p></SPAN><br /></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>