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<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Danny Levy</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danestlev@gmail.com">danestlev@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: 2009/7/14<br>
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Tenollanu?<br>To: D&E-H Bannett <a href="mailto:dbnet@zahav.net.il">dbnet@zahav.net.il</a><br>Cc: Yitzchak M. Gottlieb <a href="mailto:zuki@cs.princeton.edu">zuki@cs.princeton.edu</a>, <a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a><br>
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<div>If R' David's reading of R' Shlomo Dubna is correct, then there appears to be a machloket ham'dakdekim on this issue. The Tashbetz (2:209) writes: "Ein korin b'kamatz chataf k'shehi dachuk ela im ha'ot ha'acharon yotze b'mivta, k'mo pen-yifrotz-bam (Ex 19:24). Aval im ha'ot ha'acharon shel hamila had'chuka nach v'eno yotze b'mivta, k'mo eir'da-na v'er'eh (Gen 18:21), eina nikret b'kamatz chataf."</div>
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<div>There is a similar machloket between Radak and Or Torah when a word ending with a kamatz (gadol) in an accented closed syllable loses its accent by being joined to the following word with a makaf. See Minchat Shay on u'krav/u'krov-libo, T'hillim 56:22.</div>
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<div>Danny Levy<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2009/7/14 D&E-H Bannett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dbnet@zahav.net.il" target="_blank">dbnet@zahav.net.il</a>></span>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Just to complicate things, I refer you all to Mikraot Gedolot Shlomo Netter 1859 aka Shoken where the Mesora on the page of Breshit 2:23, luk'cha-zot, states: leita, the lamed with meteg, kuf rafa l'hakel, and two k'matzim hatufim, zayin degusha midin dachik.<br>
<br>And now I could use a little help. Does anyone have the Tikkun Sofrim of Breishit by R' Shlomo Dubna (in Mendelssohn's chumash). I have only a very bad photocopy which shows both sides of the original page at about equal strength and is almost impossible to read. As I no longer go to Bar-Ilan and don't live in a city, I have no easy access to a library that might have it.<br>
<br>After quoting various sources on the lamed and kuf and the meaning of dagesh, ma'arikh, meteg, and g'aya, he goes on. What I can make out, with some guessing, is:<br><br>v'dagesh bzayyin midin dachik ki af shehakamatz bachet hu kamatz gadol b'li s'mikhut, mikol makom b'hisamekh hamila l'achareha b'makaf yishtaneh l'kamatz chatuf.<br>
<br>And if the transliteration is not easily read" There is a dagesh in the zayyin midin dachik because, although the kamatz in the chet is a kamatz gadol, when it is attached to the following word by a meteg the kamatz changes to a kamatz chatuf.<br>
<br>I'd be overjoyed if someone can tell me if my reading of R' Shlomo Dubna is close to correct.<br>As noted before, I am not taking a side in the argument because I have never really tried to investigate and understand the different opinions. I also haven't taken sides on the question of the possible mix-up in the definitions of din dachik and ati merachik.<br>
<br><br>Anxiously awaiting to hear from someone who hasn't burned his Mendelssohn chumash and has the clear text.<br><br><br>k"t,<br><br>David <br>
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