[Mesorah] L'Mircham Olay (in B'rich Shmeih)

Thu Mar 23 11:35:11 PDT 2017

Words are tricky and slippery things. Everyone by now should know the famous dictum of Dr. H. Dumpty to Alice.  She questions him about his use of the word "glory" (notice the kinship to the word sh'vakh in our discussion, although I strongly doubt that Charles Lutwidge Dodgson's expertise in Hebrew went too far in the words we are discussingeven though he certainly knew Hebrew).

He tells her, "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less."

Alice replies, "The question is whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master – that's all."

This is actually a deep discussion in linguistics that Dodgson is alluding to, one that will always continue. (When I was a lad, I would listen to some of the discussions of Willard Quine, and a lot of what he said was along the lines of Dr. Dumpty -- no surprise, since one was professor at Oxford and the other at Harvard.)

In any event, it is a mistake to think that we ever can describe completely the meaning of a word and how it relates to other words of similar meaning.  The best that can be done is by using quotations from writers and speakers, which is the method used by scholarly dictionaries.

But woe unto us when we start delving into the meaning and "proper" usage of words in the absence of any native speakers.  In particular, in Semitic and some similar languages, the kinship between various words is very close to the surface, since the same "root" is used in various forms in the word.  What I mean is that the relationship between various nouns like "zemer" or "z'mira" is second nature to Hebrew speakers (or similar cases in other Semitic languages), much closer than the relationship between "seed" and "sow" would be to speakers of Modern English.

I never meant to make the claim that my use of "z'mira" is THE correct one. Following my curmudgeonly bent, I only wanted to stir up a little controversy among people who, based on their knowledge of modern Hebrew and modern frum usage, think they know what words mean and what the proper form is, and, I submit, I have succeeded in stirring things up a little (as well as reminding people how incorrect that z'mirah is as printed in most siddurim).

Ira is completely correct about modern usage.  But a proper examination shows that the matter is quite complicated.

Since my  mind tends to go in these directions, I have started an investigation into the words, and since I am going to do it to satisfy myself, I will probably put it up in Masorah.
But be forewarned.  Like the truth often is, it is not simple and requires some brainwork to really understand.  It has always been true that most people, even if they are interested in a topic, tend to avoid brainwork as if 'twere the plague. The Rambam notes this, as have many others. The words of Dr. Dumpty should suffice for most.  It behooveth most people to avoid my next posts on the matter

Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel

________________________________
From: Mesorah <mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org> on behalf of elazar teitz via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:57 PM
To: mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] L'Mircham Olay (in B'rich Shmeih)

While it is certainly true that "z'mira" means pruning, it also means a song -- Even Shoshan lists it as the singular form of "z'mirot."  I believe the word is the word used when referring to a particular one of the z'mirot on Shabbos; e.g., one asks, "Which z'mira shall we sing?"    It was this sense of "z'mira" which RSeth Mandel used.

On the other hand, I believe that "zimra" does not mean "a song;" rather, it is the collective "song," rather than a specific one.  It would have been incorrect in the quote cited.  If one does not wish to use "z'mira" in that quote, the alternative in current-day Hebrew is not "zimra,' but "zemer."

EMT

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Ira L. Jacobson via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>> wrote:
At 05:57 PM 20-03-17 +0000, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah stated the following:
However, knowledge of Aramaic was almost nonexistant even among Rabbonim in the Medieval Period (and also nowadays), and Jews mixed up all sorts of form.  Look at the z'mira,

In normal usage, zimra = song; zemira = pruning.

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