[Mesorah] Melo Khol Ha'aretz Kevodo

[Micha Berger via Mesorah]

I didn't deny the citation of _pereq_ 147, I just said that it would
probably be "_boneih_" even without the quote. It fits the norm AKhG
used when invented their own coinages. IOW, what I said boils down to
asserting that it's "_oseh Shamayim va'aretz_" that needs the
justification, not "_boneih Y-m_". 

(But my thesis was that "noun form"
and "verb form" should be dropped in favor of semichut vs non. The verb
(_lashon hoveh_) - noun distinction simply isn't supposed to be there.)


Side question: Why is it that the one book of Tanakh for which we have
some sort of _mesorah_ about chapterization, we are more likely to use
the Latin "Capital", but the other books, where we are using the Xians'
chapters, we rarely hear "kapitl" rather than "_pereq_"? 

On 2016-01-19
10:52 am, Mandel, Seth wrote: 

> I agree with you philosophically. As I
wrote, I cannot find any real difference in meaning.
> However,
linguistically - or, rather, according to the Masorah -there is a clear
difference. In Kapitel 146, it refers to Him as "'Oseh Shamaym
va'aretz," literally "He makes heaven and earth." It does not use a
tzere, which would mean "The Maker of heaven and earth."
> The b'rakhot
and t'fillot composed by Ezra and his BD endeavor to quote the Bible
when they can. I am planning on writing a about that sometime, but I
have many proofs that they use quotations/references.
> 
> Rabbi Dr.
Seth Mandel
> Rabbinic Coordinator
> The Orthodox Union
> 
> Voice (212)
613-8330 Fax (212) 613-0718 e-mail mandels at ou.org
> 
>
________________________________________
> From: Micha Berger
<micha at aishdas.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 10:32 AM
> To:
Mandel, Seth
> Cc: mesorah at aishdas.org
> Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Melo
Khol Ha'aretz Kevodo
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 04:12:56AM +0000,
Mandel, Seth wrote:
> : Exampli gratia: bonei Yerushalim is the noun in
construct, meaning
> : "the builder of Y-m." Boneh Y-m is a verb form,
and a brokho based on
> : that would mean Blessed ... is He who builds
(or is builiding) Y-m."
> 
> Speaking philosophically rather than
linguistically, I would conclude
> that "boneh" is the form used both
for "builder" and for "is building",
> that the noun and the present
tense verb are the same thing. To put
> the idea back into its
philosophical context, it means that as long as you
> are dancing, you
are a dancer. We are making a distinction the Author
> of Leshon
haQodesh is "intentionally" guiding us away from making. It's
> a
philosophical error.
> 
> This kind of worldview, that you are what you
do, fits a religion that
> gives such a central role to halakhah.
> 
> I
think this is why LhQ so often throws in an implied "One Who".
"Builder"
> and "One Who is building" are the same word with the same
meaning. The "One
> Who" is an artifact of chosing the verb
translation.
> 
> "Bonei" is the semichut, we shift to tzeirei not to
change from "building"
> to builder" but to add the "of" for "of Y-m".
Which then forces our
> hand, when translating into a language that does
separate these parts
> of speech, to use "builder" -- "is building of
Y-m / Y-m's is building"
> makes no sense. (Although you could say that
Hashem is "Y-m's 'One Who
> is building'".)
> 
> : In Shmoneh 'Esrei, we
use the first form, since we are quoting from the
> : pasuq in T'hilllim
147:2, where it is a noun form ("God is the Builder of
> : Y-m"). But if
somone used the form with a segol, would it really change
> : the
meaning?
> :
> 
> Besides, descriptions of G-d are more common for
berakhos: "haMotzi
> lechem", not "hotzi lekhem". Verbs tend to get
changed into descriptions
> of G-d with "asher" -- "asher qidishanu
bemitzvosav". The baqashah part
> then goes into the body, not the
chasimah.
> 
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
> 
> --
> Micha Berger Here is the
test to find whether your mission
> micha at aishdas.org on Earth is
finished:
> http://www.aishdas.org [1] if you're alive, it isn't.
> Fax:
(270) 514-1507 - Richard Bach

_Tir'u baTov_!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger
Here is the test to find whether your mission
micha at aishdas.org on Earth
is finished:
http://www.aishdas.org if you're alive, it isn't.
Fax:
(270) 514-1507 - Richard Bach
 

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