[Mesorah] Yid-mu vs Yi-demu

[Mandel, Seth via Mesorah]

Not unless you correct people for pronouncing ‘atta without the ‘ayin.  Since the sh'wa in English is not phonemic, English speakers do not care about its pronunciation (see all the people who say brokho, as it is in Yiddish, or brakha, even though everyone knows it should be b'rokho.  And so it falls into the category of the Beishanim in the g'moro.  We allow such people to daven in their own kehilla.
My rebbe, RYBS, was careful about all the sh'was and the accents on the words, even though he could not pronounce the ‘ayins.  But he noted that that was because he had been trained that way by his father, and that other than Briskers, most Jews in Europe were sloppy about where the accent goes on a word and sh'was.  And אני הקטן agree with what he said: people should be encouraged to pronounce things correctly, but should not be publicly embarrassed for not doing so.
If someone says Shiras haYam and says yidmu, you should try to educate them afterwards, IMHO, because they are just doing what most Ashk'nazim do, whether in America or EY.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gershon [mailto:gershon.dubin at juno.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:17 AM
To: Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon
Cc: Mandel, Seth; mesora at aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Yid-mu vs Yi-demu

Let's agree that the word in question means silence rather than similarity. If someone reads yidmu, no pronunciation of either the dagesh OR shva na, clearly then indicating similarity, should he be corrected as having made a mistake that changed the meaning?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon <jrs3 at nyu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Yes, R. Mandel's point, I believe, is that if is only by looking at 
> the dagesh that you can understand thd difference. The shva doesn't 
> clarify the meaning.
> 
> On Jan 29, 2015, at 8:15 PM, Gershon via Mesorah 
> <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> 
>> But one does not pronounce dagesh/no dagesh (well I don't) , one 
>> pronounces na/nach
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Mandel, Seth <mandels at ou.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> the real difference is in the dagesh.  With a dagesh, it is from the root d-m-m, meaning to be silent (and, of course, the shwa is na').  Without the dagesh, it is from the root d-m-h, meaning to be similar (and the sh'wa is silent).
>>> Cherchez la dagesh, which is in place of doubling.
>>> 
>>> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Mesorah [mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org] on behalf of 
>>> Gershon via Mesorah [mesorah at lists.aishdas.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:50 PM
>>> To: mesora at aishdas.org
>>> Subject: [Mesorah] Yid-mu vs Yi-demu
>>> 
>>> Can our learned membership opine on the Sheva in this word in the shiras hayam having a different meaning as na or nach?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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