[Mesorah] S. Baer on Shelo Assani Nochri

[nwitty at optonline.net]

I've been following this thread  for a few days.  For me, it's getting long in the tooth.

Seems to boil down to "I want to change it and here is my within the fold, and a normative basis why that's okay."  Rebuttals/refusals are based on "we always did it this way and, besides which, your normatives are not so normative" or "the normatives were ChaZa"L and later on Rabbeinu Tam and you're no Rabbeinu Tam."  (Appropos of which, there is a Meshech Chochma (citing a Gemara Yerushalmi, I think) that states that the bracha of bonai yerushalayim in SE used to be "Elokei David U-vonai yerushalayim."  Just to add to the list. . . .)

What's not being said is why the issue is at all important and what sub-text and/or agenda lurks or stands behind either side.  Doing so would bring some honesty to the discussion and might even end it so people can move on to TNBT ("The Next Big Thing").

I would remind RWW and RMB (whose memories are likely better than mine on this) that Areivim and possibly Avodah had a discussion some time ago about men who were uncomfortable about saying shelo 'asani isha.  I also recall that someone suggested that with the new O-U siddur that the bracha of shelo 'asani goy be changed to she-'asani Yisrael, in the positive formulation.  This person stated that he sent this suggestion to the committee and--surprise--received no response whatsoever.  Nu, nu.

Obviously, the various nuscha-os of these brachos reflect perspectives.  I just feel the discussion has been less than forthright about why the disputants on this list care.  

(e.g. RWW: This sounds like a good idea! It's new! I like it! Let's do it! 
REMT: It was good enough for my grandfather, it's good enough for me.  This idea comes from an evil source, and, in any event, will lead to a feminist or or other capitulatory agenda--and mixed dancing.
RMB: You expect me to blog about this?!?) Apologies--if you want 'em--to those I left out.

Because if there is no room for compromise, let's just say so and move on to something more productive.

Noach Witty


----- Original Message -----
From: Micha Berger 
Date: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] S. Baer on Shelo Assani Nochri
To: rabbi.rich.wolpoe at gmail.com
Cc: Mesorah List , mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org

> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 06:10:27PM +0000, R. Rich Wolpoe wrote:
> : So is it
> : 1 Concsensus?
> : 2 Minhag
> : 3 Gadlus
> : 4 Tiqqun Hallashon that wins the day?
> : 
> : Or are all of the above valid?
> 
> You can write my answer for me at this point. No?
> 
> For that matter, I thought you "voiced" ("bitted"?) agreement 
> with my
> "weigh each as pros and cons" formulation.
> 
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
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> Mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
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>
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