[Mesorah] kodashim

[D&E-H Bannett]

Re: RDEC:<<After all, Ashkenazi pronunciation underwent a 
much more
dramatic shift following the adoption of the Tiberian 
symbols, yet nobody
would suggest that a balkorei who is aiming to read 
according to the
Ashkenazi tradition should revert to pronouncing things the 
way that
Ashkenazim (or pre-Ashkenazim?) did over 1,000 years ago, 
when they were
using the Palestinian vocalization.  It seems self-evident 
that it means
reading the way that Ashkenazim have read for the past few 
hundred years.>>

Why would adoption of Tiberian symbols change pronunciation. 
Perhaps you meant to write that adoption of Kimhi's 10 vowel 
system made people change pronunciation.  I'm not even too 
sure of that except, perhaps, for addition of more sh'vaim 
na'im. Do people differentiate in the length of vowels 
because of the Kimhi rules.  Take the word davar with two 
k'matzim.  An Israel will say it milra daVAr with the first 
kamatz short and the second long. A mileil Ashkenazi will 
say DOvor with the first long and the second short. On 
tzeire/segol Is the tzeire lengthened in the word seder 
because of the rule book or because of the mileil. The short 
segol in Pesach is pronounced just as long as the tzeireh 
in seder. Some might differentiate between long and short 
chirik but why? - but not between  shuruk/kubutz.

And you suggest limiting our Ashkenazi selves to read as in 
the last few hundred years.   Do we say kaDosh, koDosh, 
Kodosh, kodoish. kodeish, or kodoush.  Shall I say boRUch 
aTO, BOrukh Ato or BUurikh Atu. At timers, my father claimed 
he was never married because the m'sader kidushin said 
Elokeinee which passeled the b'rakhot.

And do you think that American Ashkenaz pronunciation is the 
same as anywhere in Europe a hundred years ago?

Maybe go back further.  Perhaps to Rashi.  But it has been 
shown quite clearly that Rashi's pronunciation was much 
closer the the Sefaradic than the present Ashkenazic.

And why limit yourself to vowels. How about going back to 
all the correct consonants.  As  an example only, the vav is 
not the same as the bet rafa. It was a W as pronounced in 
English.  But all the European languages do not have a W 
sound. Why do Europeans say Vat do you vant in English?  So 
Europe's Jews too changed the W to a V. I leave the zis and 
zat or dis and dat and the loss of the dalet rafa as an 
exercise because I have to go to Mincha.

brakhot v'khu',

David