[Mesorah] Eisevei and Meisevei

[Michael Hamm]

On Monday, I wrote, in part:
> > what is the difference between 'eisevei' and meisevei'?
>
> I don't remember the difference, but R' Carmell's book says the former 
> means "he asked against him (from a Mishna or Beraitha, as follows)", 
> and I'm fairly certain he also defines "meseve".  Unfortunately, I 
> haven't the book here, and Google isn't letting me see the page that 
> shows "meseve".
>
> (The book, of course, is _Aiding Talmud Study_/_Siata Ligmara_.)

And now I've seen his entry on "meseve": "they (the Bnei Yeshivah) asked, 
or objected (from a Mishna or Beraitha)".

I suspect, but do not know enough Aramaic grammar, to know for sure, that:

"Meseve" is standard Talmud-Bavli-omitting-letters form for "mesevin", 
which in Hebrew is "m'shivim", "we counter/refute".

"Eseveh" is full for, and in Hebrew is "heshivo", "he countered/refuted 
him/it".

But, as I said, I'm not sure.  And even if I'm right, I don't know what 
the object of "eseveh" is: is it the statement or the speaker that's being 
refuted?

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome ben kandel, my fellow St. 
Louisan, to this list, and thank him for reminding me to post the rest of 
R'Carmell's words.

Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
msh210 at math.wustl.edu                Fine print:
http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html