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This reply was sent earlier to R' Michah and is still valid:<br>
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<div><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">I </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">agree. With respect, I did allude to ‘learning skills and a mode of thinking’ in both of my previous posts: ‘</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">the
entire thinking process is aided by a secular education</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">’, ‘</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"> to
be able to extrapolate and apply mathematical theory</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">’, and my reference to ‘</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">the
[lack of] overall intellectual integrity</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">’.</span><br>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Related to this:</p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Is it incorrect to posit that a lot of <i>ma’amorei Chazal</i> was formulated in accordance to their understanding and cultural absorption of sciences of their day? </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Can we not further Torah with our understanding of modern science, both peripheral and integral – even though clearly lacking their
<i>sya’ato dishmayo</i> and <i>Ru’ach HaKodesh</i>?</p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Is that not the <i>derech</i> taught both by the Ba’al Shem and his disciples, and the GRA and his school [to use the
<i>chochmoh</i> of the world..]?</p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Another q: Do we view Torah <i>SheBa’al Peh </i>on a par with Torah
<i>SheBiKsav</i>, in the sense that it must be learnt ‘as is’, without consideration of the worldview that shaped those comments? [I rather think we can see two views in the
<i>Rishoinim</i>.]</p>
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<p class="x_x_MsoNormal">Dovid Rubin</p>
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<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:20:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Moshe Yehuda Gluck via Avodah<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Moshe Yehuda Gluck; 'D Rubin'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies</font>
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<div class="x_PlainText">I think there are two opposite issues that haven't yet been raised that<br>
I want to add to the discussion.<br>
<br>
1- The iqar of learning in 1st to 12th grades is learning skills and a mode<br>
of thinking.<br>
<br>
The same is true of much of secular education. A person learns more in<br>
algegra class than the specific facts under discussion. A programmer learns<br>
tools for viewing problems that can help (if used) in general life. Social<br>
Studies teaches a way of viewing other peoples and other societies, etc...<br>
<br>
This can't be short-cut with a book on the specific facts necessary to<br>
learn Eiruvin, Chullin, or my example of the minimum size of a circular<br>
sukkah. (Which, BTW, was R/Dr Leon Ehrenpreis's launching pad for teaching<br>
calculus. See my "hesped" at<br>
<<a href="http://www.aishdas.org/asp/r-dr-eliezer-ehrenpreis-zl>." id="LPlnk70343" previewremoved="true">http://www.aishdas.org/asp/r-dr-eliezer-ehrenpreis-zl>.</a>)<br>
<br>
I am leaving the question unanswered as to whether this broad perspective<br>
thing is something we should want to learn. (The regulars can guess my<br>
answr anyway.) I just wanted to add this element to the conversation.<br>
<br>
<br>
2- Posqim. Learning may not require knowing much about the world, but<br>
applying that knowledge halakhah lemaaseh does.<br>
<br>
A poseiq can only rely on experts once he knows enough to know when to<br>
ask a question. When something that seems obvious may not be.<br>
<br>
Picture a poseiq being asked about whether it is mutar to throw some<br>
boy our of HS without knowing the world teenage boys are now living<br>
in (subjected to?), what the norms are in yeshiva, out of yeshiva but<br>
in our seviva, what temptations exist beyond the bubble...? Some psych,<br>
some social work... Would the poseiq even know where to begin when<br>
talking to an expert?<br>
<br>
Would the expert end up being so relied upon that his choice of<br>
presentation will pretty much determine the pesaq?<br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
-Micha<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Micha Berger Today is the 11th day, which is<br>
micha@aishdas.org 1 week and 4 days in/toward the omer.<br>
<a href="http://www.aishdas.org" id="LPlnk935133" previewremoved="true">http://www.aishdas.org</a> Netzach sheb'Gevurah: What is imposing about<br>
Fax: (270) 514-1507 strict justice?<br>
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