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<p class="x_MsoNormal">R’ Moshe Yehudah,</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Thank you for taking notice of my post!</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">‘Only a narrow band of Torah studies are benefited by a narrow band of secular studies’ - I agree with you - but only in part.</p>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm">If I may add the word ‘directly’ to your statement (- ‘only a narrow band of Torah studies are *<b>directly</b>* benefited’), as, arguably, the entire thinking process is aided by a secular education [though
admittedly, this was not the thrust of my original statement]. </li><li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm">Re the case in point, Chullin and biology. Though, in general, the biology syllabus does not necessarily help in learning Chulin, biology
<b>could</b> be taught in a manner that would: i.e. a teacher familiar with the various sugyos, could give a thorough grounding in anatomy, etc. This would be better than
<u>relying</u> on <i>Temunei Chol</i> [or similar compilations], which (might) stifle critical thinking. Furthermore, an appreciable amount of Torah literature is based upon a medieval understanding of chemistry and anatomy. A fuller understanding of those
thinking processes, coupled with a comparative study of [human] biology and the basics of modern chemistry, could conceivably open the door to a much fuller Torah experience. Indeed, a syllabus could conceivably be drawn up that would both benefit the Ben
Torah and satisfy the requirements of an Examinatory Board.</li><li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm">Re maths; again, you are right, so far as a basic understanding of the sugyos are concerned. But to appreciate maths as a backbone of the world’s structure and thus marvel at the<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">çëîú
äáåøà </span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>, to be able to extrapolate and apply mathematical theory to deeper areas of the Torah [which surely some of them will want to learn], requires a fundamental
grounding in the subject.</li></ol>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Dovid Rubin</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Moshe Yehuda Gluck <mgluck@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:10:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'The Avodah Torah Discussion Group'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'D Rubin'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Avodah] The Vilna Gaon and Secular Studies</font>
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<div class="PlainText">R' Dovid Rubin:<br>
<SNIP>Leaving English aside (G-d forbid they should be able to pick up a<br>
secular book and actually understand it!), the mathematics they're taught<br>
(in which [some of] the amoro'im, ge'onim, rishonim, acharonim were<br>
tremendously proficient) at their last school year [12/13 yr olds!] is at a<br>
level of 8/9 yr olds at best! Biology, which could so help them in their<br>
study of Chullin is [virtually?] non-existent.<br>
--------------- <br>
<br>
I'm cherry-picking one thing out of R' DR's post - he mentioned that biology<br>
could so help them in their study of Chullin. In fact, this is an argument<br>
that is often made (and has been made by me in the past, and I'm pretty sure<br>
I saw it elsewhere in this thread as well): Learning secular studies is<br>
necessary to help people in their Torah studies. <br>
<br>
I'm not convinced anymore that that's true. I think that there's actually<br>
only a very narrow band of Torah studies that are benefitted by a very<br>
narrow band of secular studies. For example, I have a sefer written by a BMG<br>
Rosh Chabura to help in understanding the trigonometry in Eiruvin. The<br>
entire sefer (including the covers and flyleaf) is 20 pages long. Do those<br>
sugyos in Eiruvin justify a full year of math instruction? (Trigonometry was<br>
Math III when I was in high school in Monsey.) Why don't we just give<br>
everyone learning Eiruvin a copy of this sefer, and skip Math III?<br>
<br>
Same with biology. I passed my biology Regents. But as I recall, it wasn't<br>
very helpful in learning Chullin. The most help I got was from Sefer Temunei<br>
Chol, and that was enough to understand what was going on. So how is<br>
learning Chullin a justification for spending a year on biology in high<br>
school? <br>
<br>
I can go on; my thesis is that there is not much basis to the argument that<br>
a well-rounded education makes much of a difference in understanding Torah.<br>
What would be much more efficient and effective would be a focused companion<br>
sefer to Shas that gives the background on those sugyos that need some<br>
secular knowledge in order to understand them. <br>
<br>
KT,<br>
MYG<br>
<br>
P.S. Writing the above makes me want to start writing that companion sefer!<br>
<br>
<br>
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