<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001"></HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000"
bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7><FONT id=role_document
color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial>From: Chana Luntz via Avodah
<avodah@lists.aishdas.org><BR><BR>I<BR><BR><BR><BR>Well the CC is
explaining the Rambam. The Rambam says:<BR><BR><BR>--quote-- A woman who
studies Torah gains a reward but not like the reward of a man, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial>...and even though she gains a reward, the Sages commanded that a man
should not </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial>teach his daughter Torah because the majority of women their minds
are not suited to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial> the learning, and they will turn matters of Torah to matters of
foolishness according to<BR>the poverty of their minds, the Sages said: Anyone
who teaches his daughter<BR>Torah it is as if he teaches her tiflut. With
regard to what are we<BR>speaking, with Torah she baal peh [oral Torah]; but
Torah she bichtav<BR>[written Torah] even though he should not teach her ab
initio, if he taught<BR>her it is not as though he taught her tiflut. --end
quote--<BR><BR>That is, the Rambam says: women who study Torah gain reward BUT a
man should<BR>not teach his daughter Torah BUT only Torah she ba'al peh is
tiflut, while<BR>Torah shebichtav shouldn't be done, it is not
tiflut.<BR><BR>So, the Rambam here appears to only have two categories of Torah,
torah<BR>sheba'al peh, and torah shebichtav ...</FONT></DIV><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV><BR>....But saying that the<BR>experiential aspect is not Torah at all,
would seem to be saying the shimush<BR>talmedei chachaimim, which is so valued
as essential for horah, is in fact<BR>not Torah at all, and it would also seem
to knock out ma-aseh rav, which is<BR>again absolutely critical for our
definition of halacha l'ma'ase.... </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR>.....So this kind of informal education - how to put on
tephillin, how to shect,<BR>showing how to... (the list is endless) is not
Torah, and doesn't take the<BR>bracha when done between father and son, or rebbe
and talmid? Isn't that<BR>the consequence of what you are saying?
That the only Torah that men are<BR>obligated to learn as Talmud Torah are the
formal abstract rules and<BR>regulations and not the practical, which is best
taught experientially?
<BR><BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Chana<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think that different uses of the word "Torah" are being confused
here. The very word "Torah" has many meanings, depending on context.
It can refer to just the Chumash -- the Torah shebichsav -- about which the
Rambam says "but Torah she bichtav [written Torah] even though he should not
teach her ab initio, if he taught her it is not as though he taught her
tiflut." Some chassidishe schools to this day do not teach girls
Chumash.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The word Torah can mean both Chumash and Gemara. "The Sages said:
Anyone who teaches his daughter<BR>Torah it is as if he teaches her
tiflut." There is universal agreement that "Torah" in this context means
Gemara. NO ONE thinks that teaching halacha to girls is
tantamount to teaching tiflus.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The word "Torah" can refer to the vast corpus of everything that has ever
been written by or about the Tanaim and Amoraim, Rishonim and Achronim.
The word can refer to halacha, to hashkafa, to everything that makes up
Jewish life and thought.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Torah" can also refer to that which is taught and learned by example,
or by osmosis, or by a mother's tears when she bentshes lecht and davens for her
children. "Al titosh Toras imecha."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Every language has words like that, words whose precise meaning depends on
context. Certainly in the Gemara itself there are many such
words. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>--Toby
Katz<BR>t613k@aol.com</STRONG></FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#ffffff size=2
face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><BR><STRONG>..</STRONG></FONT><FONT
lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><STRONG>=============</STRONG><BR><BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial><BR></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>