<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6456"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6458" class="">On 01/27/2016 10:49 AM, Michael Orr via Avodah wrote:<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6460" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6462"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6464" class="">>Rashi brings another interpretation of "vayichad
Yisro" from the gemara</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6466" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6468" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6470" class="">>(Sanhedrin 94a) where Shmuel says it means
that Yisro's flesh "pricked</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6472" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6474" class="">>up" in discomfort, with goosebumps, on
hearing of the suffering and</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6476" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6478" class="">>destruction of the Egyptians. The gemara, as
quoted by Rashi, immediately</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6480" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6482" class="">>explains and extends this idea: "As Rav
[or more likely Rav Pappa --</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6484" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6486" class="">>per Gra and Torah Temimah] stated, this is
as the popular saying has it:</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6488" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6490" class="">'>Do not disparage a non-Jew [Aramai] before
a ger [convert] unto the</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6492" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6494" class="">>tenth generation'."</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6496" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6498" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6500" class="">> Rav Steinsaltz in his notes on Sanhedrin
94a cites the Gra who explains</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6502" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6504" class="">> that only after the tenth generation of
descendants is the non-Jewish</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6506" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6508" class="">> blood less than a one thousandth, which is
the most stringent standard for</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6510" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6512" class="">> bitul/nullification.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6514" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6516" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6518" class="">Zev Sero:
This doesn't seem tenable to me, because if his non-Jewish
"blood"</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6520" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6522" class="">is less than 100% then he is no longer a
ger. The proverb must refer</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6524" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6526" class="">to a tenth-generation ger, i.e. all of his
ancestors for the last</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6528" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6530" class="">ten generations were gerim. <o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6532" class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6534"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6536" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6538" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6540"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6542" class="">MO: It is not
necessary to resort to such a far-fetched interpretation. <o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6544" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6546"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6548" class="">A much more natural meaning is that the term “ger... until
the 10<sup id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6550" class="">th</sup> generation” includes the issue/zera of the actual ger "up
until the 10<sup id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6552" class="">th</sup> generation."<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6554" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6556"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6558" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6560" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6562"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6564" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6566" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6568" class="">> MO: Nowadays,
almost any Jewish audience of a significant size, (whether at a shiur or
lecture, in a shul, or any class in a Jewish school)</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6570" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6572" class="">> is quite likely to have gerim or children
or grandchildren of gerim</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6574" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6576" class="">> among it. Certainly when we extend those
who we must be concerned not</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6578" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6580" class="">> to offend to include all who have any ger
forebear within the previous</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6582" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6584" class="">> ten generations, it would have to be
assumed that this principle should</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6586" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6588" class="">> be applied when addressing virtually any
Jewish setting.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6590" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6592" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6594" class="">ZS: If
this is the case today then surely it must have been even more so</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6596" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6598" class="">in Chazal's day, when giyur was so popular that
historians tell us at</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6600" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6602" class="">one point 10% of the Roman empire was
Jewish. And yet they limited the</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6604" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6606" class="">proverb to the presence of a known ger.
Kal vachomer nowadays.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6608" class="">
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6610" class="">
<!--[endif]--><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6612" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6614"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6616" class="">MO: As per my previous point, they do not limit this
principle of proper speech to an actual known ger but include speech to the
issue/zera of a ger up to the 10<sup id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6618" class="">th</sup> generation.<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6620" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6622" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6624" class="">> But speaking disparagingly about non-Jews
is not just likely to hurt the</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6626" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6628" class="">> feelings of gerim and their descendants.
Making negative generalizations</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6630" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6632" class="">> about a large class of people (in this case
almost the entire human</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6634" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6636" class="">> race!) is also unlikely to be true, and
likely to sound crude, not just to</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6638" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6640" class="">> gerim and their descendants, but also to
anyone who is uncomfortable with</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6642" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6644" class="">> painting all non-Jews with the same
negative brush.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6646" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6648" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6650" class="">ZS: And
yet Chazal had no problem with doing so, and did so all the time.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6652" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6654" class="">They didn't worry that there might be a ger in
the audience. It also</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6656" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6658" class="">seems to me that it doesn't apply at all to
divrei torah, i.e. passing</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6660" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6662" class="">on Chazal's worldview, because gerim need to
hear that too. Nor did</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6664" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6666" class="">it apply to a conversation such as Moshe's with
Yisro; he must have</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6668" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6670" class="">known that Yisro would not rejoice at hearing
what happened, but he</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6672" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6674" class="">didn't refrain from telling him.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6676" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6678" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6680" class="">So when does it apply? Perhaps only to a
casual conversation with no</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6682" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6684" class="">to'eles, i.e. when one wouldn't be allowed to
say loshon hora about a Jew.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6686" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6688" class="">In such a case, if one is talking to a ger, then
the rules of loshon hora</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6690" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6692" class="">should be extended to goyim as well, in
deference not to their reputations</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6694" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6696" class="">but to his feelings.</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6698" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6700" class="">
MO: I agree that where there is a
legitimate to’eles, that may well override the prescribed sensitivity, to the
extent necessary. But I think we also
need to be careful about how we interpret what Chazal say about non-Jews. It may not always be as categorically and
universally negative as it sounds on its surface. We have to interpret this in light of the
overall purpose of Torah in bringing about the geula of the whole world, as discussed below.<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6702" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6704"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6706" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6708" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6710"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6712" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6714" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6716" class="">MO: > But it is difficult to see how this can
come about, and why Hashem</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6718" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6720" class="">> would even want it to come about, if it
were correct that non-Jews</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6722" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6724" class="">> are by their nature irredeemable,
(incapable of participating fully</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6726" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6728" class="">> in the ge'ula to come).</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6730" class="">
<br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6732" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6734" class="">ZS: What
do you mean by "participate fully"? The nevi'inm tell us what</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6736" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6738" class="">the goyim's role will be in the geulah:
"And strangers will rise and</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6740" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6742" class="">tend your sheep", "And kings will be
your nannies and their princesses</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6744" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6746" class="">your wetnurses". Their role in the
geulah will be as support staff</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6748" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6750" class="">so that we can learn Torah all day. And
giyur will no longer be</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6752" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6754" class="">available to them. I don't know if that
fits your definition of</span><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6756" class="">
<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6758" class="">"full participation".<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6760" class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6762"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6764" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6766" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6768"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6770" class="">MO: This is a key
question you are raising here and I really should have developed the answer to
this question further as a foundational point.<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6772" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6774"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6776" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6778" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6780"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6782" class="">The mere fact that the entire Jewish people will return to
the land of Israel in the geulah seems like an important key to understanding a
number of things. First, it helps us understand that the non-Jewish
nations will not become Jewish, (since if they did they would need to go to EY
also). Second, it seems to show that the
non-Jewish nations will continue to be the overwhelming majority of the earth’s
population, (unless you make the depressing assumption that the rest of the
world will be rendered desolate in some way, chas vashalom). Further, it seems to show, from the mere
logistics, that the “support” role of those nations will generally not be
servile, as real nannies and cleaning help generally have to live close. <o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6784" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6786"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6788" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6790" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6792"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6794" class="">The term “mamleches kohanim” seems to be a clear key to
understandinjg the relationship of Jews and non-Jews in the time of geula. Within the Jewish people we have kohanim and
hedyotos/laymen, and the kohanim perform certain functions in enabling the
people to come close to, and to serve, Hashem.
Similarly, the entire Jewish people will perform the function of kohanim
with respect to the other nations in the time of geula. This is not a relationship of inferior and
superior or of overlords and subordinates.
In the time of geula, the Jewish people and every one of the non-Jewish
nations can be expected, or at least hoped, to reach its full potential in
serving Hashem who created them for this very purpose. </span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6792"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" class=""><br></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6792" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6901">I am not going to start trying to address the
hundred of verses from Tanach that teach us, not always in a very clear way,
about the nature of the ultimate geula.
But the very verse you cited about Kings being nursemaids/nurturers
(vehayu m’lachim omanayich – Is. 49:23), for example, is associated (homiletically)
in the gemara (Zev. 19a) with the concept of the non-Jewish royalty supporting
our role as mamleches kohanim, but in a way that does not undermine the status
or dignity of that non-Jewish royalty, but that rather suggests that the
relationship will be one of mutual friendship and respect. That is one of the main chapters mentioning the
Jewish people being a light to the nations, which seems possible and worthwhile
only if the non-Jewish nations are
actually worthy of redemption, or can become so.<o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6796" class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 130.5pt 0.0001pt 0in; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6798"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6800" class=""><o:p id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6802" class=""> </o:p></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1454551287632_6910">
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