<div dir="ltr">Micha, you are not correct to paraphrase my position as - <span style="font-size:12.8px">the MSbF is </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">not ashamed of his Chilul Shabbos, even though every </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Mechalel Shabbos is not afraid of Hashem's judgment </span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">- I am saying that the Halachic definition of MChShB is deliberately rebelling in a manner that shows the community that he cares not what they think of him, Gd is not really the focus. Being Mechallel Shabbos was chosen because at that time it truly represented that frame of mind.<br><br>Therefore these days people who are Mechallel Shabbos BeFarHesiya are not to be Halachically defined as such.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">All other considerations are peripheral and not relevant</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><br>Best,<br><br>Meir G. Rabi</div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Micha Berger <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org" target="_blank">micha@aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 05:30:22PM +0200, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:<br>
<span class="">: On 12/10/2015 11:04 AM, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:<br>
: > Is it not true that the status of a Mechalel Shabbos BeFarhesya is not<br>
: > so much a reflection upon the actual Aveira but upon the mindset?<br>
: > The guy who smokes at home during Shabbos is ashamed to publicly<br>
: > display his mutiny - at some level there is a degree of respect for<br>
</span>: > Shabbos...<br>
<br>
: You could say that, but you could also compare it to geneiva/gezeila.<br>
<span class="">:<br>
: A guy who smokes at home during Shabbat is afraid of what people will say,<br>
: but not of Hashem's judgment, while a guy who walks down the street on<br>
: Shabbat smoking a cigar just doesn't really care.<br>
<br>
</span>I don't see the ddifference. Both of you are saying the MSbF is the<br>
person who is not ashamed of his chilul Shabbos, even though every<br>
Mechalel Shabbos is not afraid of Hashem's judgment.<br>
<br>
Or at least, not His Judgment about chilul Shabbos. He could believe<br>
that all good people go to heaven, and therefore his chilul Shabbos is<br>
just giving up on the icing on the cake, overwhelmed by the other<br>
stuff. I think that mindset is pretty common among our contemporaries.<br>
<br>
But I am not surprised that if conversion requires both "ameikh ami,<br>
veElokayikh Elokai", losing one's good standing requires not only sinning<br>
in a way that brings into question the person's faith in Creation and/or<br>
Matan Torah and/or TSBP but does so in a way that says they're also okay<br>
not being counted in the observant community.<br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-Micha<br>
<br>
--<br>
Micha Berger I thank God for my handicaps, for, through them,<br>
<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a> I have found myself, my work, and my God.<br>
<a href="http://www.aishdas.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.aishdas.org</a> - Helen Keller<br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28270%29%20514-1507" value="+12705141507">(270) 514-1507</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>