<div dir="ltr">Simply tell BD that he trimmed your favorite rose bush in a way that will now take it at least a year to regrow, he pulled out the wild weeds that you were keeping because they reminded you of the walks your mother used to take you on down country roads. He ran rampant destroying the aesthetic vision you had for your personal space. He is a mazek and you demand recompense for his actions. He trimmed the grass? You wanted long wavy grass to simulate ocean waves. Bankrupt the 'vilde chayah'. And what about 'hezek reiah'? Someone walking through private property? The invasion of personal space, not respecting boundaries? A true BD would order maakos mardos for our squatter/gardener.<div>
<br></div><div>The Steipler states that since BD can stop a a squatter from entering a house to squat, it's apparent that it's 'assur' to do so. Again, 'assur'.</div><div><br></div><div>If our squatter is such a dreg of society, a boor with no yiras shmayim, and he does squat, BD can't be 'mchayiv' him. But we should know that the squatter is an 'avaryon'.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>KT,</div><div>MSS</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Kenneth Miller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kennethgmiller@juno.com" target="_blank">kennethgmiller@juno.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As R' Eli Turkel understands it, the halacha allows:<br>
<div class=""><br>
> any gardener who doesnt have enough jobs should just go into yards<br>
> and cut mow the lawn or remove the snow without permission and then<br>
> demand full compensation.<br>
<br>
</div>R' Zev Sero answered:<br>
<div class=""><br>
> No, becuase the home owner might have intended to let it go unmown<br>
> or unshovelled. Perhaps he just doesn't care, and if so you<br>
> haven't done him any favour by mowing or shovelling. If, however,<br>
> you saved him from a ticket, then ein hachi nami, you are entitled<br>
> to either your costs or the amount you saved him, whichever is less.<br>
<br>
</div>Is this really so? I'm not disputing you. As I wrote, I've only heard this "outside", and never really learned it in any depth at all. But this would seem to be a critically important detail, which would overturn almost any attempted application of this halacha. In the VAST majority of cases, it is indeed no favor at all, as you wrote. Perhaps he wanted to do the work himself, or perhaps he didn't even want it done at all.<br>
<br>
I am a person who understand that the gemara and poskim often discuss extreme cases, because that is often the best way to illustrate a concept. But this case is such a "karov l'vadai" that I am surprised that the halacha discusses it at all. The only case I can think of where the gardener might have a claim, would be the rare case where I have already decided that I am going to hire someone to do this work, but I have not yet selected any particular worker for the job.<br>
<br>
If I have already selected someone for the job, then the case is complicated by the fact that this squatter/gardener is stealing parnasa from the guy I contracted with, or agreed with, or even simply mentally chose.<br>
<br>
And if I did not yet decide whether I will hire someone, or do it myself, or let it go undone, then there's a good chance that part of the reason that I haven't decided is because I don't know the price. What is going to happen if the Beis Din says, "He did $100 of work for you. Pay him." - and my response is, "If that's what it costs, I'd rather do it myself! I would have paid $40, but not $100!" I'm really very curious about this case. Would the Bais Din tell the squatter/gardener (I call him that specifically to disrespect him) to accept the $40 because that's what it's worth to me? Would they tell me to pay the full $100 because that it what it is worth to an average person, even though it's not a favor to me? Maybe $70? Maybe zero?<br>
<div class=""><br>
> The key point here is that if you can't explain rationally why<br>
> you object to what he did, then the only explanation that remains<br>
> is that you're a mean person, a churl who has his feelings hurt<br>
> when people trespass on what's *his*, even when they leave him<br>
> better off than before. And that is a bad midah to have, so beis<br>
> din can make you act as if you didn't have that midah.<br>
<br>
</div>I accept this wholeheartedly, PROVIDED that "I'd rather do it myself and save the money" counts as a rational explanation. I am not trying to be mean. I'll give the guy some tzedaka if he wants. And I understand that giving him a job is the highest form of tzedakah. But for all we know, he is a *wealthy* squatter/gardener. Or do these halachos apply only to *poor* ones?<br>
<div class=""><br>
On a related, but much more general topic, RZS also wrote:<br>
<br>
> Get over it. Zachin le'adam shelo befanav, and he did you a<br>
> favour; if someone were to deposit money into your bank account<br>
> would you complain that they didn't ask first?!<br>
<br>
</div>At first glance, you're totally correct. Nothing is better than "free", right? But one must realize that people have sensitivities about certain things, and sometimes these things backfire. I once phoned a florist, to order some flowers to be sent to my wife. I don't remember how the subject came up, but he told me that his policy is to never accept an order from someone who wants to send the flowers anonymously. You'd think no one would refuse a gift, even an anonymous one. But he had seen so many people who were hurt and confused by not knowing who sent the flowers, that he decided to never do it again.<br>
<br>
My point is that the squatter/gardener may indeed be doing a favor for the baal habayis. But it is very risky, and I don't know why the halacha would not only sanction the trespass, but allow him to demand payment.<br>
<br>
This is not about rights. It's not about keeping people off my property simply because it is mine. Rather, it's about: Is this gardener my father? Why does he presume to know what I want and what is good for me? And then I have to pay for it too?<br>
<br>
Akiva Miller<br>
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