<html><body><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div><br></div><div>>>I'm trying to make a distinction between Bar Kokhva, where the decree from<br></div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">>>heaven that he isn't the messiah may not have been until well into his<br>>>career, and Shabbatai Tzevi, where I don't think anyone asserts he ever<br>>>was an candidate in beis din shel ma'alah's plans.</div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">When I originally posted this topic, I was thinking mainly about Shabbatai Tzvi<br></div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">(and RMMS). What was really different between Shabbatai Tzvi and Bar Kochba?<br></div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Both had lots of followers (including important Rabbeim), both organized militaries,</div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">etc. If we would be obligated to follow BK until his death, why wouldn't we have been obligated to</div><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">follow ShTz (at least until he went over to the Ishmaelites)?<br></div></div></body></html>