<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Zev Sero <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zev@sero.name" target="_blank">zev@sero.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On 12/08/2013 6:13 AM, Liron Kopinsky wrote:<br>
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A few questions:<br>
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Are there any other examples of "Lo Dibra Torah Ela K'neged Yetzer Hara"? If not, why is this different from all other mitzvot?<br>
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I can't think right now of any other examples in the Torah, but there are<br>
examples where the rabbanan relaxed their rules because human nature would<br>
make people do something anyway, and if the chachamim didn't give us a<br>
permitted way to do it we might end up violating Torah law. I'm thinking<br>
specifically of the heter, when ones house is on fire, to rescue ones<br>
belongings into a karmelis, or into a courtyard with no eruv, because if<br>
this was not permitted a person might decide to put out the fire instead.<div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div>I did a search on Orayta (<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.Orayta&hl=en">https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.Orayta&hl=en</a>) and the only place Lo Dibra Torah Ela K'neged Yetzer Hara shows up is WRT Eishet Yefat Toar. It is interesting that there are Gzerot D'rabannan which are mitigated by human nature, but why not any other Mitzvot D'Orayta? My one thought on this was that for most mitzvot, if someone has a tayva they can avoid the situation, but in this situation, one can't choose not to go to battle "just in case".</div>
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If someone were to use the Heter of Eishet Yefat Toar, which the Gemarra (Kiddushin 21b) analogies by saying "better you should eat Temutot Shechutot than Temutot Neveilot", should they then feel guilty and wish they were on a higher spiritual level where they didn't fall captive to their yetzer and need to use this Heter, or should they just say "mutar is mutar, end of story"?<br>
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>From the fact that David took advantage of it, it seems to me that once the<br>
Torah permitted it, it's permitted to everyone, even one who has no particular<br>
yetzer hara for it, or who could easily have resisted the yetzer hara.<div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div>Why would it seem that way to you? Maybe David HaMelech had a much higher level of Yetzer Hara for this than the average person? Maybe he was davka the person the halacha was made for, but in general, we would say that one should really try and avoid it? </div>
<div>Also, from <a href="http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/maacah-wife-of-david-midrash-and-aggadah">http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/maacah-wife-of-david-midrash-and-aggadah</a>:<br></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px">"The Rabbis severely criticize David for taking to himself an </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px;font-style:italic">eshet yefat to’ar</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px">. Deut. 21 speaks of three topic in succession: the</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px;font-style:italic">eshet yefat to’ar</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px"> (21:10–14); the instance of a man who has two wives, one loved and the other unloved (vv. 15–17); and the “wayward and defiant son” (vv. 18–21; for the meaning of this term, see below). The Rabbis derive from this juxtaposition that one transgression leads to another. If a person brings an </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px;font-style:italic">eshet yefat to’ar</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px"> into his home, he introduces dissension. The </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px;font-style:italic">eshet yefat to’ar</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:19.03125px"> with shaven head is not desirable to him, and so he becomes the husband of two wives, only one of whom he loves. This complicated family situation with two wives, one of whom he hates, leads to his child being a “wayward and defiant son.” The Rabbis exemplify such a process with the marriage of David and Maacah..."</span></div>
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At what point in the process does the Eishet Yefat Toar become Jewish?<br>
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Presumably she needs to go through a proper giyur before a beis din. The<br>
Torah doesn't say so because it's obvious. But that would be when she<br>
becomes Jewish; how *else* could it be?</blockquote><div> The Giyur of an Eshet Yefat Toar is fundamentally different than regular Giyur, I think. From what I understood from Rashi, the Giyur is "Ba'al korchah". See Rashi on 22A Likuchin Yesh Lecha Bah. "Kiddushin Tofsin, Af Al Pi SheHayta Ovedet Kochavim, Sheharei Eina MitGayeret MiDa'atah."</div>
<div><br></div><div>Kol Tuv,</div><div>Liron</div><div><br></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div>Liron Kopinsky</div><div><a href="mailto:liron.kopinsky@gmail.com" target="_blank">liron.kopinsky@gmail.com</a></div></div>
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