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On 5/20/2013 2:59 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20130520195931.GA12696@aishdas.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:10:34PM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">R' Yochanan b Maryyah answers [Y-mi Qiddushin 6b] that this question
is according to the one who says ein hayoveil oleh min haminyan.
</pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
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<pre wrap=""> beram, keman de'amar hayoveil oleh miminyan shenei shavua
pe'amim hu ba be'emtza sheni shavua.
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">Right. Because a normal shmittah cycle is 6 years of work and then he
goes free at the beginning of the 7th...
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
That's not what the words say. Translating my quote:
However, according to the one who says Yoveil counts toward
the years of sabbatical,
sometimes it [yovel] is in the middle of the years of the sabbatical.
A very clear outright statement that yovel drifts -- sometimes it's on
year 1 of the cycle, other times in the middle of the cycle, etc...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Of course it's a clear statement if you supply bracketed text that
isn't in the original. Translating your quote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote>However, according to the one who says Yovel is included in
the shmittah cycle, sometimes [the eved ivri goes free] in the middle
of a shmittah cycle.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20130520195931.GA12696@aishdas.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Yovel is both the 50th year *and* the 1st year of the following shmittah
cycle, there'd be only 5 years of work prior to shmittah. Normally,
you'd buy an eved ivri in the first year of a shmittah cycle, and he'd
work until the beginning of the shmittah year. But in this case, he'd
work *through* the shmittah year and go free at the beginning of the
year after shmittah....
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
But that's not the halakhah. Nor the question being answered, which
presumes freedom comes with shemittah. Earlier in the sugya it asks
whether "sheish shanim ta'avod" means that the eved works 6 years from
mechirah, "uvashvi'is yeitzei" tells you shevi'is shel olam. Amar
R Chunah, shevi'is shel olam. Rabbi Yochan bar Maryyah... (and this is
where we came in).
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<pre wrap="">From the Korban HaEdah:
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">...
</pre>
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<pre wrap=""> Aval l'R Yehudah, ika l'meimar she-'itztrich kra she-ha-yovel
motzi'o lilmod minei she-eino nimkar ba-yovel.
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<pre wrap="">
</pre>
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<pre wrap=""> D'salka da'ateich amina, keivan dichtiv "shesh shanim ya'avod,
u-va-shvi'it yeitzei", b'chol ha-shmittot airi, v'afilu b'shmittah
ha-rishonah she-l'achar ha-yovel.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">...
He's saying that an eved bought after yovel gets freed by shemittah
even though it's not a full shemittah cycle from yovel to shemittah.
Not that yovel is year 1 according to R' Yehudah. Just that it isn't
necessarily year 7.
</pre>
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<br>
No, he's saying that you might have a hava amina that the six years of
work stated in the pasuk would be six years even in the first shmittah
following Yovel, in which case the eved would go free in the year
*following* shmittah.<br>
<br>
Look, there are two ways to read this Gemara. One way creates a
machloket between the Bavli and the Yerushalmi. And contradicts the
Korban HaEdah. The other way doesn't.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20130520195931.GA12696@aishdas.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
As I quoted, the words of the gemara are "sometimes it is is in the
middle of the years of shavua". The QhE isn't going to make A mean
B.
</pre>
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<br>
The word "hu" in the Gemara refers to his going free; not to the Yovel.<br>
<br>
Lisa<br>
<br>
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