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<font size=3>At 03:37 PM 12/6/2012, Ben Waxman wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I don't know when the discussion
stops being Avodahish and become Areivimish. I'll rely on the
moderators.<br><br>
On 12/6/2012 8:24 PM, Prof. Levine wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><br>
I think that people who are not observant will understand since they do
not keep kosher, then religious people will not eat in their homes.
I fail to see "You can eat with me but I can't eat at your
place" being insulting. It is simple a fact of
life.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font size=3><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">BW: Yes, they can be insulted
(and are) when they say to you "just tell me what you need and I'll
take care of it" and the dati answer is "I can't trust
you". I've been in this very situation and seen people get very
insulted.</font></blockquote><br>
My answer would not be "I can't trust you" but a detailed
list of what is required. If the person were to follow it,
then I see no problem. Truth be told, I have been in this
situation with some observant people who are aware that I have
"unusual" kashrus standards, They asked me for
guidelines, I gave them, and we went to their home and ate. It was
Seudah Shlishis, so things were cold and milchigs. They were
not at all insulted. <br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><font size=3>Then how is one
supposed to know that the food was bought from a place that has reliable
hashgacha? Is the secular person supposed to show the religious
person the sales slip and kashrus certificate? Is he or she not
supposed to break the seals until the religious person arrives. All of
this does not sound to me like it will make for
Achdus.</font></blockquote></blockquote><br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><font size=3>BW: Again, you're
using words the authors didn't use. You keep saying "reliable
hashgacha" when I have no doubt that if the secular guy were to say
"I bought the meat at the local Mega (a chain with rabbinate
heksher") that would be enough for them. And again, they advised
against eating home cooked food unless you can verify a lot of
information. But they are assuming that if you ask and check and
discuss, you can trust your secular friend's information. If he says that
he bought it (whatever it is) at the Mega, you don't have to worry that
he's lying and really he went to the treif butcher shop. That is their
real chiddush.<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><br>
There is another issue here to keep in mind - Tzinius. What if the
secular lady of the house is wearing a sleeveless and/or low cut dress or
blouse. What are the men supposed to do about making a bracha or,
indeed, even looking at her. Is this issue dealt with. (Note
that I did not mention if her hair is uncovered, because I assume that
they would tell you to rely on the heter of the Aruch
HaShulchan.)</blockquote>BW: People who don't want to look at
secular women shouldn't leave the vast majority of neighborhoods.
Certainly they can't work in many industries.<br>
</blockquote>It is making a bracha that is the problem. YL</font></body>
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