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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>RYL writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>></span>Then I guess I have to conclude that what R. Fuchs wrote in Halichos Bas Yisroel is either misleading or incorrect or both. See<br><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>></span><a href="http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/bas_yisroel.pdf">http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/bas_yisroel.pdf</a> <br><br><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yes, exactly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rav Henkin wrote Understanding Tzniut and various other articles and pieces because he was concerned that standards were being articulated at the most chumradik level to an audience without the knowledge to determine when (or whether) what they are being told is a chumra, and when it is not. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is, unfortunately, a lot around on this topic that is indeed misleading or incorrect (or correct only for particular communities) or both. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>></span>On the other hand, given the Kedusha of EY wouldn't one expect women living there to conduct themselves at least according to 7 above. <br><br><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is an assumption here, that chumra equals kedusha. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But there are good reasons to understand that not to be the case. The one time that we had a conflict between a more stringent opinion and a more lenient opinion and it was resolved by HaShem himself, namely the disputes between Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai, HaShem ruled in accordance with Beis Hillel.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And two reasons are given in the gemora there (Eruvin 13b) – one is precisely because Hillel was the more lenient, and Shammai was the more strict and the second was because Beis Hillel studied both their own opinions and the opinions of Beis Shammai, but not the reverse.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And to make reference to a recent daf yomi – we see this in action. Beis Shammai held that when saying krias shema in the morning, one was required to stand up, and when saying it in the evening, one was required to sit down, while Beis Hillel did not require any special positioning (Brochos 10b). So, a number of rabbis thought – well what is the harm in doing it Beis Shammai’s way – as a chumra – it doesn’t contradict Beis Hillel, it just adds to it. So for example R’ Elazar on Brochos 11a where he was standing up, but decided to lie down to say Shema – and Rabbi Yishmael criticised him, because, even if he was only following a chumra, the students might see and assume that was the halacha, distorting the halacha.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So too here, if these women had not dressed the way they did, RYL over in America (not to mention others in Eretz Yisrael) might have no reason to learn that there is a lot more variance in the halacha than he is or they are aware of. That is surely a mailah and arguably more fittingly derived from the kedusha of eretz yisroel than following mere chumra.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And indeed the second story on Brochos 11a has R’ Tarfon going on the way, and davka going out of his way to lie down to say the evening Shema, to be choshesh for the view of Beis Shammai, and he then concludes that he put himself in danger from bandits, and the Chachamim say that it would have been appropriate if he had indeed come to harm – and here it doesn’t sound like there were anybody (except possible bandits) watching. The message would thus seem to be that inappropriate chumra may at times be more destructive and wrong than going m’ikar hadin,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BTW on one of Avodah and Areivim recently, there was a bit of a discussion about MO citing more charedi poskim but not vice versa, as if that was some sort of a lack. Rather I would have thought we see from the whole incident with Beis Hillel, Beis Shammai and the Bas Kol, that citing more stringent opinions that one does not agree with is the derech of Beis Hillel and does not mean that one ultimately holds that one must or should follow such positions or such poskim.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='color:#1F497D'>></span>YL<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Chana<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>