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What does the applicability of the harchakos of Rabbeinu Tam have to
do with your mistaken assertion that the Shulchan Aruch and the Rema
posken like the Rambam? How does this show that there is an
obligation for a man to get divorced in a stam case of ma'us alei?
Nobody is disputing that the harchokas of Rabbeinu Tam were
sometimes used in a case of Ma'us alei. It is stated clearly however
that for hundreds of years they were not generally used. Contempoary
poskem such as Rav Eliashiv and Rav Sternbuch clearly express
concerns that even such passive pressure might produce a get me'usa.
Others such as Tzitz Eliezar, Rav Ovadia Yosef and others assert
that our contemporary society needs their occassional use. But more
to the point you claimed my brother's halachic views are that of a
daas yachid - Despite clear and overwhelming evidence to the
contrary- you refuse to acknowledge your assertions are wrong.<br>
<pre wrap="">On 5/9/2012 10:45 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">Both the SA and the Rama say that iqar hadin is like the Rambam and
we may use kefiyah even when the gemara doesn't explicitly require a
divorce. However, the SA has a "some say" not to, and the Rama lauds
the minhag of some areas not to allow kofin oso ad sheyomar "rotzeh
ani", and avoid the dispute. Where the gemara*does* require a divorce,
which I am not insisting is our case, there is not even a "yeish omerim"
against the Rambam. So yes, we do hold like the Rambam -- we just
prefer lemaaseh not to rely on him lekhat-chilah for beyond iqar hadin
reasons</pre>
</blockquote>
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--></style>On 5/13/2012 1:18 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20120513101859.GA8421@aishdas.org" type="cite">
Stam SA: Anyone who they said must divorce, you can force him even
with sticks.
2nd opinion: Veyeish omerim -- anyone who they do not say "force
him to divorce," only that "he must divorce", you cannot force him
with sticks.
Notice neither limits the use of non-corporeal kefiyah in cases
where
he must divorce. The machloqes is on "afilu beshutin". The yeish
omerim
says that in cases the divorce is mandatory but qefiyah isn't
specified
by the gemara, We tell him, "The sages obligate you to divorce."
And if he won't divorce, you are allowed to brand him a sinner.
So, in such cases, you may ostracize the guy.
Then, after the Rama says that it's better to avoid the machloqes
and
not use qefiyah beshutim in violation of the yeish omerim, he
writes: But if he has a wife sinfully, everyone agrees kofin
beshutin. Wherever it says ein kofin beshutim, we also do not put
him in nidui.
Then his discussion of harchaqos RT, which is -- again --
everything short
of nidui.
The Tzitz Eliezer 17:52, Yabia Omer 8:25 and R' Sternbuch 5:344
all
invoke this se'if in their discussions of ma'us allai.
So I feel pretty secure in saying it applies.
</blockquote>
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