<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">R’nLL wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I disagree. Ha-motzi me-chaveiro, alav
ha-raaya. If you're going to declare that people (even people at the time of
maaseh bereishit) didn't have the right to eat without being granted the right
explicitly, you have to prove it. Not just assert it and wait for others to
disprove your assertion.<BR><BR>Hashem says "pru urvu." Does that mean that
procreation was forbidden until He said that? And what's your distinction
between eating and lifting your hand? Both are natural to the form and character
that Hashem gave us. Hashem owns everything, including us, so when I lift my
hand, am I not using something of His? Should I not have to get permission?
That's the implication of what you're saying, and I don't see any justification
for it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM responds:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I will respond phrase by phrase to the above
as much of it makes no sense to me at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">LL: </FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">I
disagree</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>CM: Your prerogative. But is merely your assertion. You present no proof of
your assertion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>LL: <FONT face="Times New Roman">Ha-motzi me-chaveiro, alav
ha-raaya.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM: Total non sequitor – not even as a
metaphor. This is a rule in dinei momonus and not meaningful in a philosophical
discussion of defaults at the time of masei bereishis. Besides I am not being
“motzi” and you are not a “muchzak” in anything except your own
assertion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">LL: you have to prove it. Not just assert it
and wait for others to disprove your assertion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM: As I already said above – no more and no
less than you have to prove your assertion. I did provide some authority and
logic. You provided nothing but your assertion. I would be happy to hear your
“proof.”</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">LL: Hashem says "pru urvu." Does that mean
that procreation was forbidden until He said that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM: I have no idea, but why would it bother
you if that was the case?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">LL: And what's your distinction between eating
and lifting your hand? Both are natural to the form and character that Hashem
gave us. Hashem owns everything, including us, so when I lift my hand, am I not
using something of His? Should I not have to get permission?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM: It’s kol hanehneh .... not kol
ha’oseh ....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">LL: I don't see any justification for
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">CM: That’s just your assertion
again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Kol Tuv</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Chaim Manaster</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>