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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>From: <b>Eli Turkel</b> <<a href="mailto:eliturkel@gmail.com">eliturkel@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:28 PM<br>Subject: [Avodah] walking between 2 women<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Are most people really makpid on this?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rabbl P.E. Falk has a whole section on this in ‘Modesty – An Adornmant For Life’. Permit me to quote selections (from p 503):<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (b) Certainties concerning this issue: The following are points that are definite concerning the warning of chazal…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (1) A man should not pass between two stationary women unless there are four amos between them (Ben Ish Chai …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (2) a woman should nor pass between two stationary men if there is less than four amos between them [for this reason no shura is made for an aveila…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (4) When two men pass simultaneously between two women or two women pass simultaneously between two men the warning of chazal does not apply…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (5) When the outer people are standing or walking in a way that they cannot be considered as associated with one another, the advice of chazal does not apply. For example, they are within four amos of one another but one is distinctly further ahead than the other. In such a case there is no connection between the two outer people and the middle person is not considered as crossing between them… This however does not include women standing behing one another in a queue. They are connected by being ‘together the queue’…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (6) When a ‘man woman man’ walk unintentionally together (such as a husband and wife walking along and a second man walks unintentionally alongside the wife)…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (c) Uncertainties concerning this issue…:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (1) … girls under bar mitzvah…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (2) Whether it applies within close family eg. A father walking between his wife and adult daughter (see Beis Baruch vol. 1 page 402 and Shmiras haguf vehanefesh 111 note 12 The latter quotes the Chazon Ish who held that this applies even to close family).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (3) … non-Jewish women…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (4) Whether it applies when all three people are standing, walking or sitting together, or only if the inner person crosses through the outer ones (Responsa Salmas Chayim 504 writes that it applies, see Responsa Vaywvarech Dovid no.122 s.v. ubenogeia and Shmiras haguf vehanefesh 111: (4). However sefer Zikaron no.16, Minchas Yitzchok 10:68 and Beis Baruch vol.1 page 402 are in doubt).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (5) Whether it applies when one of the two outer people is sitting and the other is standing…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (6) Whether it applies when two men pass either side of a standing woman or two women along either side of a stationary man…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (7) Some maintain that if the man passing in the middle caries an article such as an umbrella or a sefer, he is not considered to be passing alone between the two women and the warning does not apply (Tiv Yehoshua 2:12, Beis Baruch vol.1 page 402, Zichron Tov letter 28, Lev Eliyohu breishis introduction page 27. This is however not unanimously held – Responsa Vaywvarech Dovid 122 and Chazon Ish quotes in Shmiras haguf vehanefesh page 334).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is just a selection of quotes, but there are enough useful qulas, that with a little attention and effort, this is easily followed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Akiva<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>