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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>From: garry <gk@garry.us><BR>>> I am missing a big chunk
of this discussion. I simply don't see the <BR>mystery. Why does
knowledge = control? <<<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That's a fair question. The problem is a problem of logic rather than
a practical problem. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The logic goes like this: Let's say that G-d knows that on
Monday I am going to speak to my mother in an annoyed tone of
voice, thus being oveir on kibud eim. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, what happens on Monday when she says something that I find annoying,
and in addition, I am tired and cranky when she says it? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Two things can happen: I can just say the first thing that comes to
my tongue and commit a sin. Or, I can think twice and bite my tongue and
not commit that sin. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But how can I bite my tongue and remain quiet? If I make that choice,
then G-d's knowledge of what I was going to do was flawed and incorrect!
So obviously, I /have/ to choose to sin, in order to make it come out that G-d's
foreknowledge was correct!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As you can see, this is a conundrum only in logic and not in practice,
because even if He knows what I am going to do, /I/ don't know what I am going
to do before I do it, and at the moment it comes to my choosing, I make my
choice based strictly on the options before me, completely without regard to
what G-d knows. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(If I knew what He knows, of course, it would be a completely different
problem. If, for example, a prophet had forewarned me that I was going to
sin on Monday, then I would be constrained in practice, and not only in logic,
to do what G-d knows I am going to do.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The practical part of the problem comes /after/ the sin: If G-d knew
what I was going to do, doesn't that mean that I /had/ to sin, whether I knew it
or not? Because had I not sinned, His foreknowledge would have been
inaccurate, but since his foreknowledge is always accurate, doesn't it mean that
I was in some sense programmed to sin at that moment? Wasn't my sin in a
sense forced on me? And doesn't that mean that no one is really culpable
for any sin they commit?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When it says in Pirkei Avos, "Hakol tzafui vehareshus nesunah" it is
answering that argument, and Chazal are saying, "No, even though it might seem
to you that logically you had no choice but to sin, since Hashem knew you were
going to sin, nevertheless, you really did have a choice, and you cannot evade
responsibility for your sin."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would compare this to Zeno's Paradox, in a certain way. Zeno's
Paradox, to summarize it, goes something like this: If you want to get
from point A to point B (from Miami to New York, say), you must first get to a
point, X, which is halfway between point A and point B. But before you can
get to point X, you must first get to a point which is halfway between point A
and point X. But before you can get to that point, you must first get to a
point which is halfway to that point. But before you can get to that
point....and so on ad infinitum. Thus, it is impossible for anyone ever to
get from point A to point B. So, I can never get to New York. I can
never even get out of Florida!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This is a mental puzzle, a logical paradox. It is not a problem in
reality, in practice, because people get from point A to point B every day,
without worrying their heads about how they covered the intervening space by
halves. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Similarly, the paradox of G-d's foreknowledge and human free will is not a
problem in practice, because every day we choose our actions. And even if
it were true that G-d's foreknowledge had really constrained our choices, we
still must act /as if/ we have free will, we still have to make choices every
day, because no prophetic voice comes from Heaven telling us what to do.
In practice we either have free will, or we act as if we had free will, but the
third choice -- wait for a heavenly order, and then obey it -- is not
there.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chazal in Pirkei Avos are telling us that we are not just acting "as if" we
have free will, but that we really do have free will.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW I have seen an answer to Zeno's Paradox, a mathematical answer, namely,
that the fact that Line AB contains an infinite number of points -- half of X
and half of that, etc -- in no way implies that Line AB is an infinite
line. A finite line can contain an infinite number of points but the
traveler does not have to touch separately each and every one of those points to
get to the end of the line.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have not seen a mathematical answer to the Pirkei Avos Paradox but am
content to accept on faith the fact that I have free will.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The actual range within which free will operates, I should add, is
limited, as Chazal say: "Hakol beyedei Shomayim chutz miyir'as
Shomayim." That is, our genuine choices, the range within which we
can exercise free will, are only the moral choices. Those choices that do
not have to do with choosing good or evil are really illusionary choices.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example, choosing to wear modest clothes is within my area of free
will, but choosing to wear a blue rather than a pink sweater is not really in my
power. The pink sweater is dirty, it is lost, it doesn't even exist --
they don't make pink sweaters anymore -- or simply, G-d pushed my hand
towards my blue sweater when I went to my closet, without my conscious
awareness. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Many daily choices, thus, /seem/ to be free-willed choices, but really are
not. Even the big ones, like what job to take or what city to live in, are
a product of a confluence of factors orchestrated by Divine Providence and not
truly in our hands. But the moral choices are in our hands -- to do good,
or otherwise -- just as surely as Zeno can get from here to there.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>--Toby
Katz<BR>================</STRONG></FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_____________________
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
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