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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000>>>That
said, I would agree that if this kidnapping (1) actually
occured,<BR>>>and (2) was a BD-ordered "kofin oso ad sheyomar rotzeh
ani", DDD wouldn't<BR>>>trump
halakhah.<BR>==============================================================<BR>Do
our batei dinim have the power to order corporal punishment? If so, my guess
would be that it's from the power of the melech, not the traditional beit
din. If so, I'm not sure that DMD (at least according to those who see
it going beyond monetary issues) wouldn't trump.<BR>KT<BR>Joel
Rich</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>In this particular case we're not talking about corporal punishment,
which a person would be sentenced to as /punishment/ after being convicted
of a crime or a sin. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We are talking about using force -- I don't think it matters what kind of
force, whether a beating, or just being held somewhere against his will -- to
make someone do something that he doesn't want to do. The "something" he
doesn't want to do is free a captive -- his own former wife. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You could definitely make a case that freeing a captive (the ex-wife)
trumps dina demalchusa and doesn't need the authority of a king, or of
anyone. The only reason you'd need a bais din, or at least the approval
of a very well-respected rav, in my understanding, is that under certain
circumstances a get given under duress is not halachically valid, so you would
need to know that after you had forced the man to release his wife, she really
was free.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>To repeat, dina demalchusa would not apply in the case of freeing a
captive, and corporal "punishment" also is not an issue here.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A separate issue would be, who has the responsibility or even the right
to put /himself/ at risk -- risk of incarceration, police record, monetary
loss, etc -- in order to save an agunah? That's a different, possibly
even more complicated question.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG></FONT><B><BR><FONT color=#0000ff>--Toby
Katz<BR>================</FONT><FONT lang=0 PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></B><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
lang=0 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN
class=771525612-20072011> Could be, but it seems to me there is a
prohibition against hitting ones neighbor.How does one invoke makkin
oto without a beit din to invoke it so as to override the hitting
prohibition?<BR>KT<BR>Joel
Rich </SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><br><br><table bgcolor=white style="color:black"><tr><td><br>THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE <br>
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