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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>From: Harvey Benton <harvw613@yahoo.com><BR>T"<BR><BR>the
gemorrah loshon is "kol mi she' omer"....that dovid didn't sin, etc, ela
<BR>only toeh....<BR>the gemorah does not say that dovid, and shlomo, etc did
not sin, <BR>because the loshon and tone of the novi, is that they did
definitely sin <BR>(otherwise why the rebuke from the novi re: batsheva, and his
first-<BR>born dying, etc???)<BR>-----<BR>however, the gemorro is teaching us
perhaps, that, on our level, <BR>"kol mi she' omer" whoever "says" that they
sinned, is mistaken, <BR>because on our level we dont' really understand what
their sin was....<BR>and are therefore unable to say it <BR>(eg, above out pay
grades, but not above the novi's pay grade....)<BR>---<BR>otherwise, how to
explain this discrepancy from novi to gemmorrah??</FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
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<DIV>You are concentrating on "whoever says" but the part you should
concentrate on is "he didn't sin." The Gemara is not addressing
the issue of whether a person should give voice to his thoughts.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your main question has already been asked and answered on Avodah more than
once, but it's easier for me to summarize the answer than to find the old thread
in the archives.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Whoever says Dovid sinned is mistaken" MEANS "Whoever thinks that
Dovid committed the sin that a simple reading of the pesukim would imply --
i.e., whoever thinks he committed the sin of adultery -- is mistaken."
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Batsheva wasn't married because her husband had given her a get before he
went off to war, as all Jewish soldiers did back then, to prevent questions of
agunah from arising.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At the same time, it is glaringly obvious from the sharp words of Nasan
Hanavi that even if Dovid didn't technically sin, what he did was nevertheless
very wrong, especially for a man on his madreiga. He had used a halachic
technicality to take another man's wife "legally." (He then sent the man
into the most dangerous part of the battle in order to get him killed in
battle, but as king he had the technical right to send any soldier wherever he
wanted; additionally the man was chayav misah because he had disobeyed the
king's orders -- although I'll admit that whole case is cloudy, hard to
understand and hard to justify.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>From the navi's words, and most of all from Dovid's response to Nasan
and his lifelong remorse and emotional Tehillim of repentance, it is
obvious that "he didn't sin" is not meant literally. Dovid said to
Nasan, "Chatasi Lashem." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So you have to understand what the Gemara means when it says "he
didn't sin." People who have learned a lot of Gemara, like people
who have read a lot of any given literature, pick up a sense of what words
and phrases mean. Like when somebody says, "Well blow me
down! You could knock me over with a feather!" -- an
overly literal reading would lead to a misunderstanding. You might
try to blow the guy down or push him down with a feather, and then accuse him of
lying if he remained standing. So, an overly literal reading of the
Gemara leads to many questions that would be easily resolved or not even arise
if people just had a feel for the flow of language.</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><B>--Toby Katz<BR>================</FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"></B><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_____________________
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