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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>RMB wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>The concept of a precomputed calendar must be older than Hillel II
even<BR>according to those who disagree with R' Bachaye and R'
Chananel.<BR><BR><BR>This isn't a chiddush according to the rishonim who say
that the notion<BR>of a precomputed calendar (although perhaps not one based on
all the<BR>current rules) dates even back to bayis sheini. E.g. Rabbainu
Bachaye<BR>(Shemos 12:2) who says the iqar was always al pi hacheshbon, and
(I<BR>presume) re'iyah is part of the ritual, not the determination of
the<BR>date. Which is why they would close for eidus or pay people to
stand<BR>out to be eidim as needed. But it is a data point.<BR><BR><FONT
face=Calibri>CM comments:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>This <FONT face="Times New Roman">R' Bachaye (Shemos
12:2) asserts that cheshbon is the ikar and places the earliest use of
cheshbon (= calendar) to the forty years in the midbar due to the ananim.
eg. the following from the first website that came up in my quick search
that uses this<FONT face=Calibri> </FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">R'
Bachaye </FONT> from<STRONG> </STRONG></FONT><STRONG><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>Rabbi Moshe Bogomilsky <A
href="http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/foreword.htm"><FONT
title="http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/foreword.htm
CTRL + Click to follow link"
size=3
face="Times New Roman">http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/foreword.htm</FONT></A> </SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>Kol Tuv</SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>Chaim Manaster</SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>ooops: I just noticed you were talking according to those
who disagree with the <FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Calibri>
</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">R'
Bachaye.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3 face="Times New Roman"><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3 face="Times New Roman"><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><STRONG><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>
<P><B style="COLOR: navy" class=b>"In the seventh month, on the first of the
month, you shall have a holy assemble; it shall be to you a day
of<I>shofar</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>blasts."
(<I>Bamidbar</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>29:1)</B></P>
<P></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="COLOR: red" class=red><B>QUESTION:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Our Sages<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>(Rosh Hashanah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>29b) note that the wording here
is<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>"yom teruah"</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>"a day of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I>blasts" -<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>while in<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Parshat Acharei Mot</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>(<I>Vayikra</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>23:24) it says<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>"Shabbaton<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>zichron</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>teruah"</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>"a<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>remembrance</I>of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>blasts". From this they derive that
the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>is sounded on<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Rosh Hashanah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>only when it falls on a weekday, but
not on<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Shabbat</I>.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="COLOR: red" class=red>Why is the<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>mitzvah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>sounding</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>not cited the first time that<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Rosh Hashanah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>is mentioned in the
Torah?</BLOCKQUOTE><B>ANSWER:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>From the festival of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>one can determine on which day of the
week all the festivals of that year will take place. This rule is known as<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>a"t, ba"sh, ga"r, da"k</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>(see<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Orach Chaim</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>428:3).
<P><I>Alef</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the day of the week when the first day
of<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>falls will be<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>taf</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the same day as<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Tisha B'Av</I>.</P>
<P><I>Beit</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the second day of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>will be<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shin</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the same day of the week as<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Shavuot</I>.</P>
<P><I>Gimmel</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the third day of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>will be<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>reish</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the same day of the week as<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Rosh Hashanah</I>.</P>
<P><I>Daled</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the fourth day of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>will be<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>kuf</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the day of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Kriat haTorah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Simchat Torah</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>when we complete and start anew the
reading of the Torah.</P>
<P>According to the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Gemara
(Shabbat</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>87b) the Jews left
Egypt on Thursday. Consequently, since the first<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>was celebrated on Thursday, the
following<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Rosh
Hashanah</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>was on a<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Shabbat</I>. Therefore the Torah
does not mention the actual sounding of the<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>but only<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>"zichron teruah"</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>"a<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>remembrance</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>blasts."</P>
<P></P>
<HR align=center width="25%">
<P>A difficulty that may be raised with the explanation is that the rule of
knowing from<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Pesach</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>on what day of the week a given holiday
will fall, applies only nowadays when the new month is established<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>al pi hacheshbon</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>-<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>according to a pre-calculated calendar.
Accordingly, one month is complete (thirty days) and the following month is
incomplete (twenty-nine days), and everything is known in advance. However, when
the new month was derived based on the testimony of witness who saw the moon's
appearance, this rule would not be applicable since there can be a few
successive full or incomplete months.</P>
<P>An answer to this difficulty may be the following: Rabbeinu Bachya
(<I>Shemot</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>12:2) writes in the
name of Rabbeinu Channaneil that throughout the forty years the Jews sojourned
in the wilderness, the new month was in fact established according to a
pre-calculated system and not by testimony of witness. The reason is; Hashem
covered the Jewish camp in clouds during the day and a pillar of fire during the
night, (<I>Shemot</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>13:21) which
made it impossible for them to see the sun during the day or the moon during the
night.</P>
<P>Thus, the first<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Rosh
Hashanah</I><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the Jews celebrated
was indeed on<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Shabbat</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>and they did not blow the<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>shofar</I>.</P></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>